D&D 5E (2014) Kobolds are also from the Feywild now?

[Crimson Longinus]

Again, I somewhat get that attitude with passive media. But RPGs are not like that. They're for creating your own stories, that is literally the purpose for their existence. And that means that by necessity your version of the setting will diverge from 'the official canon' once the game begins. and of course the future products cannot take into account such divergence.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Has someone broken into your home, removed your books, and put new books into their place? Has someone hacked your computer and switched out your pdfs? Did someone cast modify memory on you to alter your memories of the lore?

No?

Then your stories aren't being replaced. You still have them. You can still think about them, you can still read them, you can still play them. You may not get much new stuff you didn't like, but think about all the people who didn't have much old stuff that they liked. I mean, you just told @teitan that you wish you didn't have to ignore "just about all of" the new canon. If I were running in the Realms or Greyhawk or Dragonlance, I'd have to ignore just about all of the existing canon to make a setting I like. I had to ignore about half of the canon in Ravenloft, and I love that setting.


Ad all of those stories have had huge rewrites. Star Wars is now ignoring the EU, despite the outcries of the fans. When Roddenberry started up TNG, he deliberately ignored everything in TOS except for the movies and a couple of species, and it took a long time to start bringing in some of those old elements back. It took until Enterprise to remember that Andorians and Tellerites, and I think Orions, still existed. And Star Trek is famous for ignoring its own continuity and rewriting huge parts of it (remember living through the Eugenics Wars? And Worf doesn't want to talk about what happened with the Klingons. And neither does the Discovery crew.) And there's the Abrams Trek. Marvel often ignores, rewrites, and blows up its own continuity.
And, of course, DC had Crisis on Infinite Earths (and Infinite Crisis--which always gets my Dad annoyed, because it should be Crises--and New 52).

Edit: I really gotta stop starting my sentences with the word and.

There are explanations for all that stuff in universe, and all of those events, that history, still happened in continuity. And I didn't mention DC on purpose.

But, you're right. Many people are getting the lore (or lack thereof) that they want right now, and I am happy for them. I'm a little sad for me though, and thoroughly sick of the schadenfreude I'm seeing in some corners as things continue to change at a faster rate.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Again, I somewhat get that attitude with passive media. But RPGs are not like that. They're for creating your own stories, that is literally the purpose for their existence. And that means that by necessity your version of the setting will diverge from 'the official canon' once the game begins. and of course the future products cannot take into account such divergence.

Campaign setting were largely presented as passive media back in the day, updated when the designers wanted to, and that's how I consumed it.

I like 5e, and have just about everything mechanical i need from it. With the lore removed, and my mechanical needs met, I have very little reason to engage with WotC at all. And, as a hobbyist and D&D enthusiast for the last 36 years, that saddens me. I don't get a lot of actual gaming in, so my primary way to engage has always been to read the material, and socialize with fellow gamers (mostly on the internet lately).

 

[see]

This just not true. The game did not require a grid and minis. We played hours and hours of 4e with just TotM. There is nothing about the rules that prevent you from playing that way.

There's a difference between relying on something and requiring it, which is also reflected in the difference between the rules preventing something and the rules facilitating something. That people can translate "The kobold shifts 1 square" into other terms, and some people do not find it an excessive burden in TotM play, does not change the fact that the design relies on a grid of squares, or that other people found it a burden.

Similarly, it is demonstrably possible to play D&D with descending AC and THAC0. And it's quite possible to translate those numbers into ascending AC and attack bonuses. But if 6th edition used descending AC and THAC0 throughout, it would be obvious that the designers were detached from the needs and desires of their audience.

 

[JEB]

Except of course that nothing outside of the core books is canon. So…

Well, technical point: per the policy, nothing outside of (the current printing of) the core rulebooks is confirmed canon. Even if they proceed in future books as if, say, MOTM is canon, they won't ever officially say so. Conveniently, it gives them a lot of plausible deniability.

But in practice, yes, everyone outside Wizards should assume that nothing outside of the core is canon. Because anything outside of them can't be relied on to be "true" for other 5E books.

I honestly will never understand why people care so much about a game setting's canon.

It gives players a common frame of reference. DMs can and often do deviate from that common frame of reference, but it allows players to assume that - unless specifically contradicted - they can rely on what the Monster Manual says about green dragons, or what Dragon Heist says about Waterdeep.

It also helps players feel like they're operating in a shared universe, which is appealing to certain audiences.

 

[Hussar]

Nothing. I just feel sad about all those stories being over, replaced piecemeal, and hearing people exult in how happy they are that they're gone.

Well perhaps if folks had been a tiny bit less gleeful in ramming their preferences down everyone else’s throats there’d be a little bit less of that.

But having been beaten over the head with the canon bat in every single thing I’ve enjoyed since childhood - DnD, Star Wars, Star Trek, just to name a few - I find my well of sympathy is simply bone dry.

 

[Hussar]

Well, that's a bit of slang I haven't heard before...

Gotta love the naughty words filter. Took me a second to figure it out. I like it.

 

[Faolyn]

There are explanations for all that stuff in universe, and all of those events, that history, still happened in continuity. And I didn't mention DC on purpose.

Often there is no explanation. I mentioned all the Star Trek stuff (remember when the crew of Voyager got taken to Earth in the 90s and what should have been the middle of the Eugenics War?) because I know that better than Marvel and Star Wars, but I know that things in all those fandoms were rewritten and handwaved away or even lampshaded.

But, you're right. Many people are getting the lore (or lack thereof) that they want right now, and I am happy for them. I'm a little sad for me though, and thoroughly sick of the schadenfreude I'm seeing in some corners as things continue to change at a faster rate.

People are happy they're finally getting lore that they like, or at least that they no longer are required to have to refer to 40+ years of previous lore in order to play "properly." Except for Hussar, who's seems proudly vocal about it, there haven't been too many people displaying actual schadenfreude here.

 

[teitan]

Well perhaps if folks had been a tiny bit less gleeful in ramming their preferences down everyone else’s throats there’d be a little bit less of that.

But having been beaten over the head with the canon bat in every single thing I’ve enjoyed since childhood - DnD, Star Wars, Star Trek, just to name a few - I find my well of sympathy is simply bone dry.

Pretty much my feelings. I’m a Masters of the Universe fan and man I get so sick of the “canon” debates and arguments because some guy wrote some mini comics for their Classics line that TRIED to make everything fit together in the worst fan fiction ways including a total Deadpool rip off character of himself as a time traveler. Almost made me stop collecting entirely because I grew up with the original vintage mini comics and the cartoon which were different stories and never had an issue. Transformers everyone accepts different stories and never bats an eyelash and talks about their favorite versions but man people who get locked into these canon debates… ugh.

 

[teitan]

Well, that's a bit of slang I haven't heard before...

It’s something I picked up watching David Icke talk about shape shifting lizard people!