Kobolds Are Supposed To Be Pathetic Combatants

Hmmh, maybe add a saving throw then... (Against DC 15 or so -> 3 out of four will go down)

I personally don´t mind miss damage. On the other hand, I think variable hp for monsters solve the problem nicely:

(1d4 hp for goblins: 3 out of 4 go down, but sometimes one will survive)
 

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It was an open question, not solely one for game designers. So thank you for the answer.

However, at least in 3e kobolds had 4 HP. Which would immediately render the reaper ability a non-KO ability at least on the first swing. They clearly didn't just have 2 HP as a carryover, as in 4e they had 1 HP (as a minion) and in 3e they had 4 HP. Oh, a non-minion (at level 1) had 27 HP so rather a little more than 2 I would say.

3e raised HPs across the board, for the very reasons you've been outlining (then again 3e allowed power attack and cleave at level 1 so a 3e fighter could kill 2 of these buggers which can't, as of yet, happen in 5e)

in 4e the basic kobold was a 1hp minion - so translates almost exactly here. the 27 HP ones were, I believe Dragonshields, which have 15 HPs in the current playtest (and are definitely not the "standard" kobolds)

The problem is that their ONLY solution is to cut the themes. I am told the cut the themes if I don't like an aspect of a single theme. I am told to cut the themes if I want an old school play. This solution only serves to handicap my players, nothing more. It doesn't solve the issue of kobolds having 2 HP and being able to be defeated by a strong breeze.

Modularity may fix the problem, but I am not alone in thinking that modularity needs to be built at the beginning not tacked on at the end. Beyond that, modularity doesn't solve this problem. Giving me other tools to use is what modularity fixes. Modularity will allow me to not have to use the reaper ability, or allow me to replace the Healer theme. It doesn't change the HP structure of all creatures in the game. Even if a new HP system is introduced, such as one relating to wound points or similar, the issue will still exist because it is expected that you convert the existing material over to the "WP" system, so what is silly in one system will remain silly in another.

Modularity is a toolbox, it isn't a cure.

It's the initial playtest - no way they can be expected to have all the answers.

But you central complaint really just seems to be that 2 HP kobolds have too few HPs and are too weak. Really easy fix: have kobolds have 1HD-2 (to simulate weakness) min 2, instead of a static 2 HPs. I'll be surprised if the actual rules don't have this exact rule (it's the way 3e did it, assign an "average" HP to a monster but supply the math behind it so you can easily generate your own number.




A. It impacts more than just creatures with less than 3 HP. It works on everyone, regardless of HP. It only insta-kills people with 3 or less.
B. It insta-kills people with 3 or less HP. ON A MISS.
C. At least magic missile says it can't miss. The reaper ability says no such thing. Ergo, the MM ability has a REASON it works that way, the reaper ability does not.
D. Yes "it is magic" is a viable defense for such things.
E. I dislike MM too, in case you are wondering, for the exact same reason. (In my potential 5e games I would make it a 1st or maybe even 2nd level spell. Something that costs something to cast, instead of free 24/7. But this isn't about MM.)

You keep saying "on a miss," for this to make any headway here you have to move past the "miss" part and just accept that it's damage dealt when a certain condition is met. Think of it as anyone who has this training never misses, maybe that's too much - but it's got some precedent (Bulls Eye, Green Arrow etc.)

I despise the "it's magic" explanation. I can just as easily say the reaper ability is "mythic" (and you know what, there's not enough mythic stuff in today's D&D - which is a loss.) the training as mythic appeals to me.


The mage gets magic missile, which represents the mage's innate ability to conjur "force" to leap from their finger tips and strike an opponent. It does not miss and has a set effect. It does 1d4+1, not the mages attack stat. On average the missile is doing less than the fighter too. Also, it has an explanation, limitations, can be countered and is codified. On the other hand, the reaper ability is none of these things. It can't be countered as long as the fighter could hit but misses. It does MORE damage (on average) than the missile and it does it to all targets, so long as he misses.

Magic missile scales better and quicker than reaper (mage gets more missles faster than the fighter gets a bonus to his strength). Further, the fighter will never intentionally miss as his minimum damage on a hit is 9 and average damage is 14. Further low damage resistance is a pretty common thing, and I bet they bring it into 5e, meaning the ability would be countered in certain circumstances.


For everyone else, except the slayer, a miss is a miss. The slayer misses but the kobold still dies. I don't need real world explanations for that to see it is a flaw.

No, it's an intentional feature of the Slayer theme. One you don't like, but it's clearly an intended feature.

We have at least 2 instances (magic missile and the slayer theme) of at will damage with no roll, clearly they're testing out a possible feature.

I can't fault them for being all "troll" to see what we react to. But I honestly doubt they are just doing it to see if people react. I think they see the mechanics as legitimate offerings or things they want to test. That is why, as I said; If there IS a good reason why the fighter can always, reliably do 3 damage to every creature on a miss then let [us] see it.

The problem is, there are plenty of reasons; I've even listed several which I think are good reasons. You just disagree as to them being good.


What I have said is that 2 HP is too low. That no one should not be able to kill them on min damage. That the slayer does it WITHOUT HITTING at all.
I have said kobolds SHOULD BE WEAK. I don't know how often I have to keep saying that. They should be. I think that the playtest makes them TOO DAMNED WEAK. So weak in fact that they offer almost no contest to a part of LEVEL ONES. If the enemy isn't threatening at level one then they are never going to be threatening. I see over and over that kobolds aren't threatening enough in large groups, which is when they should be.

And I think a level one ability that allows you to drop certain weak creatures, 1 at a time, even at first level, is fine.

Let me ask, have you played through this encounter? Because you keep saying, too weak even in large groups. When more than just me has stated, they are actually a decent threat in large groups! The fact that no character died, does not mean they were not a significant threat!
 

Hmmh, maybe add a saving throw then... (Against DC 15 or so -> 3 out of four will go down)

I personally don´t mind miss damage. On the other hand, I think variable hp for monsters solve the problem nicely:

(1d4 hp for goblins: 3 out of 4 go down, but sometimes one will survive)

Adding a saving throw just gums up the mechanic and adds a level of complexity which is (to me) unnecessary. I think better to just say, miss damage exists or it doesn't.

I'd much rather go for option #2 the variable HP for monsters - it's an easy and intuitive solution (which I bet is the one they go with anyway).
 

As I said in my other thread: variable hp makes everything more interesting. It is not a lot of work to roll it out. And Players still want to roll their attack(figther) or damage(wizard), because it can bet the difference between a kill and not.
And even if minimum damage would kill the monster anyway, PCs don´t know it exactly.
 

I despise the "it's magic" explanation. I can just as easily say the reaper ability is "mythic" (and you know what, there's not enough mythic stuff in today's D&D - which is a loss.) the training as mythic appeals to me.
I entirely agree and am determined to use this explanation in future. "It's mythic" is the perfect rejoinder to "it's magic."
 



NEARLY died. When surround by opponents on every square at first level you shouldn't NEARLY die, you should die.

Are you suggesting that people who disagree are playing their D&D wrong? Because you sound pretty absolute here, and I think a lot of people disagree with you.

The most traditional average kobold hit point value is 2. Until 3e, kobolds had 1d4 hps (okay, so average 2.5, but the point stands). Kobolds have always been the easiest monster to kill that is smart enough to wield a weapon. Personally, I am completely fine with the slayer mowing down a tribe of kobolds like they are blades of grass- as long as there might be a chieftain or some other example of a buff individual or two in the tribe that has more than 10 hps, I am totally fine with the idea of a guy who is trained to KILL KILL KILL being able to automatically kill kobolds on his turn. I have no problem justifying it, either, since a "miss" is really just as much a "lethal blow turned to a bruise" or whatever. (Just like hit points, hitting and missing in D&D is somewhat abstract.)
 

Why does a fighter have to roll dice every round? It's okay for the wizard to announce a spell and have the DM roll a save. I don't see why the fighter should have to be rolling a die to be doing something, when fighting an incredibly weak individual opponent like this.

Yep.

Perhaps the feat should be reworded, something like, "If the die roll would indicate a miss, you instead score a glancing blow."

Ta-dah!
 


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