3.5 Kraken Variants

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Whew, that's a lot! I will agree to that space/reach and your proposed ability scores.

320 ft jet speed seems ok if we go with the 80 ft swim speed. What's the deal with the 240' (80') in the original, though?

10x low-light vision is ok. Maybe darkvision 100ft (more than a kraken since it's so much bigger)?

On NA: 3 size increases (using Gargantuan to Colossal, anyway) is +15. Compared to a kraken, that's NA +29. I also get NA +29 starting from the giant octopus, but NA +25 starting with the giant squid. Honestly, I want this thing to be fairly hard to hurt, so I'd go with at least the NA +29. What do you think?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Whew, that's a lot! I will agree to that space/reach and your proposed ability scores.

320 ft jet speed seems ok if we go with the 80 ft swim speed.
Good!

Updating Mystaran Kraken Working Draft.

What's the deal with the 240' (80') in the original, though?
I don't follow you. What's the issue you'd like clarifying?

10x low-light vision is ok. Maybe darkvision 100ft (more than a kraken since it's so much bigger)?
If we're increasing the darkvision I'd be tempted to make the range match or exceed the creature's reach so it can see what it's attacking.

Darkvision 750 ft or 900 ft. seems rather high though.

On NA: 3 size increases (using Gargantuan to Colossal, anyway) is +15. Compared to a kraken, that's NA +29. I also get NA +29 starting from the giant octopus, but NA +25 starting with the giant squid. Honestly, I want this thing to be fairly hard to hurt, so I'd go with at least the NA +29. What do you think?
Let's see.

Giant Octopus +7 NA, add +12 for Large=>Colossal and +10 for "Colossal++" is +29 natural armour.
Giant Squid +6 NA, add +9 for Huge=>Colossal and +10 for "Colossal++" is +25 natural armour.
Kraken +14 NA, add +5 for Gargantuan=>Colossal and +10 for "Colossal++" is +29 natural armour.

Yup, your sums match mine.

I'd be OK just using the Giant Squid's enlarged NA with a 2 point boost to +27 natural armour. That way we've got a "0" in the AC like the original. :p

Armor Class: 30 (–8 size, +1 Dex, +27 natural), touch 2, flat-footed 29

If you rather make it higher you might be able to persuade me, although I prefer this beastie to be somewhat "squishy" for its Hit Dice.

The original has a respectable AC 0 for a BECMI cephalopod. That's 7 points better than a standard BECMI/AD&D Giant Squid or Giant Octopus. The AD&D Giant Squid also an AC 3 body shell and BECMI has an AC5 Giant Squid in X13 but those seem irrelevant.

So I might consider adding +8 to the Giant Octopus's enlarged NA to make it:

Armor Class: 40 (–8 size, +1 Dex, +37 natural), touch 2, flat-footed 39

What do you think?
 
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freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, it can see what it's attacking when there's a bit of light! But the darkvision should really be at least its space, I guess. Does 500 ft still seem too large?

I prefer +37 NA, total AC 40 option :devil:
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Regarding the speed, I didn't know what the 240' was for. Land speed sounds weird, and 80' looks like swim speed.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Well, it can see what it's attacking when there's a bit of light! But the darkvision should really be at least its space, I guess. Does 500 ft still seem too large?
500 seems too small - it makes its Darkvision shorter than its tentacles.

I was thinking its tentacle Reach or larger - 750 ft. or 1000 ft. perhaps?

I prefer +37 NA, total AC 40 option :devil:
Well I guess I can go along with making a monster nastier. :devilish:

Updating Mystaran Kraken Working Draft.

Regarding the speed, I didn't know what the 240' was for. Land speed sounds weird, and 80' looks like swim speed.
The 240 is its "combat speed" and the 80 is its "regular speed" - the first is the maximum it can move in a melee round, the second how fast it moves when it's just "walking around".

Or swimming around in this case.

BECMI monster stats nearly always state both speeds. The combat speed is three times the regular speed.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
500 seems too small - it makes its Darkvision shorter than its tentacles.

I was thinking its tentacle Reach or larger - 750 ft. or 1000 ft. perhaps?
Aw hell, let's just kick this conversion back into life and give it darkvision 750 feet so it can see as far as it can reach.

Updating Mystaran Kraken Working Draft.

Shall we decide on attack damage next?

The original had tentacles which did 7-42 damage (i.e. 7d6) and a bite that did 8-80 (i.e. 8d10) plus it could constrict for 7d6. Also, its tentacles had 60 hit points apiece.

By comparison:

Giant Octopus is 1d4 tentacle[10 hp]/1d8 bite/2d8 constrict; Large=>Colossal would make it 2d6 tentacle/4d6 bite/6d8 constrict.
Giant Squid is 1d6 tentacle[10 hp]/2d8 bite/1d6 constrict; Huge=>Colossal would make it 2d6 tentacle/4d8 bite/2d6 constrict.
Kraken is 2d8 tentacle[20 hp]/1d6 arm[10 hp]/4d6 bite/2d8 or 1d6 constrict; Gargantuan=>Colossal would make it 3d8 tentacle/1d8 arm/6d6 bite/4d8 or 1d8 constrict.

Hmm… those are all significantly less dangerous than the Mystaran version.

I would be game just giving the Mystaran Kraken 7d6 tentacles and an 8d10 bite like the original, but that doesn't match well with standard 3E damage progression.

How about making the tentacle attacks either 6d6 or 8d6 damage and the bite attack either 8d8 or 12d8?

Of the two options, I prefer the 6d6/8d8 version since 12d8 is at the end of the Improved Natural Attack feat's d8 damage progression and is roughly equal to 10d10 (average 54 vs. 55) it leaves room for advanced Mystaran Kraken to get Improved Natural Attack to bump up their bite damage.

Oh, and I'd be fine keeping the 60 hit point tentacles.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Well, in my defense, you were worried that 750 ft was too long for darkvision. But I'm happy with that value.

Yeah, let's go with 6d6/8d8. Anything higher may be fun but just out of line with similar critters. Constrict at 6d6, I assume.

Camouflage (Ex): Since a Mystaran kraken is mottled blue-green, it takes a DC X Spot check to distinguish a resting Mystaran kraken from a mass of kelp before it attacks. Anyone with ranks in Survival or Knowledge (arcana) can use one of those skills instead of Spot to notice the monster.

This kind of thing usually has a static DC. Want to make it DC 20?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Well, in my defense, you were worried that 750 ft was too long for darkvision. But I'm happy with that value.

Yeah, let's go with 6d6/8d8. Anything higher may be fun but just out of line with similar critters. Constrict at 6d6, I assume.
Updating Mystaran Kraken Working Draft.

I gave the tentacles the standard "severing a tentacle does half damage to the cephalopod" but would be game for it doing no damage like the original text. With 992 hit points it makes little difference.

Camouflage (Ex): Since a Mystaran kraken is mottled blue-green, it takes a DC X Spot check to distinguish a resting Mystaran kraken from a mass of kelp before it attacks. Anyone with ranks in Survival or Knowledge (arcana) can use one of those skills instead of Spot to notice the monster.

This kind of thing usually has a static DC. Want to make it DC 20?
Hmm, I'm not that keen on the "since a Mystaran kraken is mottled blue-green" beginning.

How about:

Camouflage (Ex): A Mystaran kraken can rest motionless and almost perfectly mimic a floating mass of kelp. It takes a DC ?? Spot check to distinguish a camouflaged Mystaran kraken before it moves. Unfortunate creatures may already be within reach of the kraken's tentacles before they see it. Creatures with ranks in Knowledge (arcana) or Survival may use one of those skills instead of Spot to notice the monster.

This kind of thing usually has a static DC. Want to make it DC 20?
Well a group of PCs of high enough level to fight one would find a Spot DC of 20 trivial, but I'm OK with that. I consider it more of a "flavour" ability than something useful.

Do you want to do anything with the following?

"When a kraken attacks a ship, it wraps six of its tentacles around the craft … The six tentacles hold on to the ship, automatically inflicting 7d6 points of constriction damage each round (half damage, in hull points, to the vessel)"

Maybe:

Shipcrusher (Ex): A Mystaran kraken can constrict a colossal creature or object with more than one tentacle. The constriction damage increases by 1d6 for each additional tentacle.
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Half damage to the body from severing tentacles is ok.

I can also go with the revised Camouflage text and the proposed Shipcrusher ability.

Any other SAs, or are we ready for skills and feats?
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Half damage to the body from severing tentacles is ok.

I can also go with the revised Camouflage text and the proposed Shipcrusher ability.
Updating Mystaran Kraken Working Draft.

Any other SAs, or are we ready for skills and feats?
I did wonder about tweaking the Camouflage to allow the Kraken to substitute a Hide or Disguise check for the flat DC, similar to the SRD Mimic.

Kelp Mimicry (Ex): A Mystaran kraken can rest motionless and almost perfectly mimic a floating mass of kelp. Anyone who observes a camouflaged Mystaran kraken can detect the ruse with a successful Spot check opposed by the kraken's Hide check. A Mystaran kraken can take 10 on a kelp mimicry Hide check and normally does so, giving the Spot check a DC of ??. Unfortunate creatures may already be within reach of the kraken's tentacles before they see it. If the Mystaran kraken moves it immediately reveals itself. Creatures with ranks in Knowledge (arcana) or Survival may use one of those skills instead of Spot to notice the monster.

or are we ready for skills and feats?
We might as well start talking about them.

If we use the Kelp Mimicry above I was thinking we'd give it a hefty racial bonus to kelp mimicry of +12.

I'm inclined to split the skill points between Spot and Listen with the extra point in Spot, like the SRD Giant Squid. I'll assume it has the Alertness feat, since the Squid and all giant Cephalopods have it.

Also, since these things appear to be giant octopi rather than squid I'm inclined to give them the racial skill bonuses of an Octopus:

Skills #1: Escape Artist +13, Hide +5 (+13 kelp mimicry), Listen +38, Spot +39, Swim +29​
Skills: A Mystaran kraken can slightly change its color and shape, giving it a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks. *When using its kelp mimicry power, the Hide bonus improves to +12. A Mystaran kraken also can squeeze and contort its body, giving it a +10 racial bonus on Escape Artist checks.​
A kraken has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.​

Alternatively, we could trim the Listen and Spot down to +30 to match the SRD Kraken and put those points in Hide to give it a more CR appropriate skill level:

Skills #2: Escape Artist +13, Hide +22 (+30 kelp mimicry), Listen +30, Spot +30, Swim +29​
Skills: A Mystaran kraken can slightly change its color and shape, giving it a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks. *When using its kelp mimicry power, the Hide bonus improves to +12. A Mystaran kraken also can squeeze and contort its body, giving it a +10 racial bonus on Escape Artist checks.​
A kraken has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. It can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line.​

Hmm… I quite like that.

For the feats, I'd take Alertness, Blind-Fight, Improved Critical (tentacle), Improved Initiative, Improved Trip and Iron Will from the Kraken and Diehard and Endurance from the Giant Squid.

Add Combat Reflexes, Dire Charge, Epic Will, Improved Critical (bite), and Weapon Focus (bite, tentacle) to buff out its combat abilities.

Let's see, that's 14 feats so we've still got eight more to pick. I'm not seeing that much else I'm really enamoured for this creature. Devastating Critical would seem a really munchkin option - the save to avoid instant death would be Fort DC 63!

Maybe some of the other combat feats - Superior Initiative, Multiattack and Improved Multiattack, Great Fortitude, Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave would make eight but they're pretty much the "usual suspects".
 

freyar

Extradimensional Explorer
Huh, I read it more as just of a natural coloration thing rather than an active ability, so more like camouflage. I think I'd rather stick to camo since they're not shapechangers like mimics. I'm up for boosting the camouflage DC, though.

Your skill option #1 looks pretty good, though putting the Hide ranks somewhere else would be fine, too.

You probably have the right feats for it, including the combat ones.

Got behind on this thread, the Displaced Critters got bumped a time or two, so I missed it.
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Huh, I read it more as just of a natural coloration thing rather than an active ability, so more like camouflage. I think I'd rather stick to camo since they're not shapechangers like mimics. I'm up for boosting the camouflage DC, though.

Your skill option #1 looks pretty good, though putting the Hide ranks somewhere else would be fine, too.
Okay I can live with that, how about we give it Skill Option #2 with Camouflage and just arbitrarily set the Camouflage DC to 30 since it's effectively the same DC as spotting an invisible living creature who's holding still as it's "identical" to kelp.

You probably have the right feats for it, including the combat ones.
Works for me!

Updating Mystaran Kraken Working Draft.

Got behind on this thread, the Displaced Critters got bumped a time or two, so I missed it.
These things happen. Especially when our threads wander away to other forums!
 

Cleon

Adventurer
Well while updating the Working Draft I realized that I'd got the total skill ranks wrong in post #90 of this thread:

Skills #1: Escape Artist +13, Hide +5 (+13 kelp mimicry), Listen +38, Spot +39, Swim +29

Skills #2: Escape Artist +13, Hide +22 (+30 kelp mimicry), Listen +30, Spot +30, Swim +29
That's 18 more skill ranks than it should have - I forgot to apply the -16 Hide Penalty for it being Colossal and for some reason it has two excess points in Escape Artist (I suspect I used its Wis bonus).

To amend this I've changed the skills to:

Skills #3: Escape Artist +12, Hide +15, Listen +25, Spot +25, Swim +29

If you prefer it having Listen and Spot +30 like the standard Kraken I'd be fine swapping over 10 ranks to make it:

Skills #4: Escape Artist +12, Hide +5, Listen +30, Spot +30, Swim +29
 

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