D&D 5E Lair Actions and Confusion

[Flamestrike]

I consider the lair action (and legendary actions) one of the creature's turns

The lair action is not the creatures turn. The creature has its turn on its own initiative count, and its own turn. A lair action is no more the creatures turn, than a reaction would be.

Otherwise spells that have effects at the start of your turn (or the end of your turn) effect the creature twice.

 

[Flamestrike]

Yeah, I agree with the others: RAW, Confusion only affects their turn, and the effect only persists until the end of that turn. By the same logic, its legendary actions wouldn't be affected either.

Unless the creature is incapacitated, or otherwise unable to take actions, it can use its legendary actions just fine.

Confusion effects (other than the blanket ban on taking reactions) expressly only affects the creature during its turn. Legendary and lair actions would be unaffected by confusion.

Why is this so? Because its freaking legendary, that's why.

 

[Esker]

Unless the creature is incapacitated, or otherwise unable to take actions, it can use its legendary actions just fine.

Confusion effects (other than the blanket ban on taking reactions) expressly only affects the creature during its turn. Legendary and lair actions would be unaffected by confusion.

Why is this so? Because its freaking legendary, that's why.

This is.... exactly what I said?

 

[Dausuul]

By RAW, the confusion spell a) prevents reactions and b) limits the target's actions on its own turn. Legendary and lair actions are neither reactions nor on the creature's turn, so it can use them normally.

However, I would be inclined to house rule that the spell's limitations also apply to legendary and lair actions, and I would say the creature rolls for the spell the first time it can take such an action and at the start of each of its turns thereafter.

 

[Flamestrike]

By RAW, the confusion spell a) prevents reactions and b) limits the target's actions on its own turn. Legendary and lair actions are neither reactions nor on the creature's turn, so it can use them normally.

However, I would be inclined to house rule that the spell's limitations also apply to legendary and lair actions, and I would say the creature rolls for the spell the first time it can take such an action and at the start of each of its turns thereafter.

I wouldn't. The beast is legendary. So legendary a trifling confusion spell wont get in the way of its lair actions and legendary actions.

 

[Ashrym]

The lair action is not the creatures turn. The creature has its turn on its own initiative count, and its own turn. A lair action is no more the creatures turn, than a reaction would be.

Otherwise spells that have effects at the start of your turn (or the end of your turn) effect the creature twice.

Right, which is why I said it's not RAW and what I consider the intent for spells like confusion. The spell affects the creature over time and the fact tbe creature acts twice is no different than other abilities like thief's reflexes when it comes up.

 

[Flamestrike]

Right, which is why I said it's not RAW and what I consider the intent for spells like confusion. The spell affects the creature over time and the fact tbe creature acts twice is no different than other abilities like thief's reflexes when it comes up.

It has nothing to do with reflexes and everything to do with the fact Legendary creatures are solo creatures, and the 'legendary actions' and the 'lair actions' are the mooks (baked into the creature). Thats what they're balanced around.

Mechanically you're neutering the creature and the 'mooks' with one spell, and its clear by RAW that you shouldnt.

 

[Ashrym]

It has nothing to do with reflexes and everything to do with the fact Legendary creatures are solo creatures, and the 'legendary actions' and the 'lair actions' are the mooks (baked into the creature). Thats what they're balanced around.

Mechanically you're neutering the creature and the 'mooks' with one spell, and its clear by RAW that you shouldnt.

Thief'a reflexes is an example of an ability that creates multiple turns and would work the same way.

If an effect grants a save at the end of each turn it's a benefit instead of a penalty. If an effect only lasts until the end of the next turn it still only applies once. Lair actions generally also mean epic saves too.

I hardly think the method I've selected neuters anything. Telling me what's RAW when I never disagreed on RAW. doesn't change that. Rulings, not rules.

 

[Dausuul]

It has nothing to do with reflexes and everything to do with the fact Legendary creatures are solo creatures, and the 'legendary actions' and the 'lair actions' are the mooks (baked into the creature). Thats what they're balanced around.

Mechanically you're neutering the creature and the 'mooks' with one spell and its clear by RAW that you shouldnt.

Plenty of spells do it just fine by RAW. Hold monster is only one level higher, and it deprives the creature of actions, including legendary and lair actions, and makes it autofail Str/Dex saves, and turns every melee attack against it into a crit.

Legendary creatures have an answer to spells like this: Legendary Resistance. That is their "hit point equivalent" for debuffs. Once you breach the target's LR, however, it is fair game for whatever debuff you care to throw at it. I acknowledge that confusion does not affect legendary and lair actions by RAW, but I strongly disagree that there is any balance issue in house-ruling it to do so.

 

[Coroc]

I would say lair action works, especially since one of the possible lair actions of many boss mobs is to shrug of a spell in chosing to pass a botched save (which is intended imho for just that kind of situation).

So, if it is possible to use this specific lair action, it should be possible to use any lair action, although like @dave2008 stated further up, he would rule it to use that "pass the save" action if it has the choice to do so.
This also makes sense in so far, that from a tactical view (and you have to play boss mobs as being very tactical, especially if solo and only relying on their lair as reinforcement) it makes most sense for the mob to get rid of heavy debuffers with priority, and the confusion spell being one of these.

For those arguing on the confusion spell being a wasted resource then, think about that the boss mob has to use one of his lair actions on cancelling, which is eventually better, than it using e.g. the heavy damage AE as their lair action instead.