D&D 5E Large Vs Flying?

Zardnaar

Legend
Well they have claimed that being large comes with various benefits that are hard to desogjm around. Not to mention PCs may not automatically get the npc extra dice of damage.

The extra dice is roughly comparable to the polearm master feat except it scales better with multiple attacks.

Recent race design has also had a lot of power creep in mordenkainen's (both of them) and Fizbans.

Anyway even with the bonus dice of damage an PCs may not get that as it's an NPC.

Flying creates all sorts of headaches in general to the extent anything flying is automatically banned in my games. AFAIK there's 3 official flyers not just the Aaracokra.

Anyway thoughts?
 

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Hawk Diesel

Adventurer
Personally, I don't think it should be a big deal for a large sized race. What makes large races difficult is more related to the perception that being large comes with an increased reach and damage dice. However, it's relatively easy to decouple these things. Just because large sized monsters have stat blocks that include an extra damage die and reach doesn't mean those have to be automatic. I mean, consider small sized races. The only real difference between small and medium is related to carrying capacity and heavy weapons. Usually there's a slight decrease in speed, but that's not universal.

So maybe the way to make a large sized race is to just increase carrying capacity and allow them to treat all weapons they wield as having the heavy property.

Regarding flying races, I've never seen an issue with them. It creates some challenges as a DM, but it's nothing that can't be solved. If anything, it creates more opportunities for a DM, and allows that player to shine in unique ways but in a way that also allows other players to have the spotlight. I mean, flying PCs always have to be concerned with the possibility of falling, they are usually more visible making them easy targets on the battlefield (at least while flying), and there's no reason the enemies couldn't send out their own flyers.
 

Large has its whole gettin into places, size, auras and all that stuff that WotC didn't want to deal with, whereas flying doesn't have nearly as much baggage attached to it.

Flying's dealt with any time you go inside, or have an enemy with a ranged weapon, whereas Large's issues will generally show up always. I do vaguely remember seeing some ways to handle it, but given the number of things at play just for the size change, none of which were around for Small, you can kind of see why they don't bother.
 


DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Every DM is going to have bits and bobs that bother them with the game. And as time goes on and more and more ideas and concepts are introduced to be used by players... those ideas will bump against those issues the DMs have. Thus it is up to each DM to decide what is most important to them... the encounters and challenges they prefer to use and thus they prohibit those PC bits that can nullify them too easily, or allowing their players free rein to use what they want and they will just adjust their game to compensate. That's pretty much baseline DMing... choosing what you want to have available for players in the game you are going to run. But if you're relying on WotC to make those choices for you... you're probably going to be unhappy one way or another. Cause they ain't building the game to your specifications... only you can do that.
 

jgsugden

Legend
There are dozens and dozens (if not hundreds or thousands) of variables that go along with having a large PC heritage . In the end, we know you can have large PCs in the games at low levels without it breaking the game - because we've had large PCs in the game at low levels since the beginning, the most common being 2nd level Moon Druids, but also 3rd level PCs under Enlarge Spells.

The hesitancy in the past, as I understood it, was not that you can't balance a large creature for combat - it was that they were problematic from a fun perspective when they were stuck at large size. Having to deal with getting them through dungeons, for example, where they may be too big to squeeze, was problematic. Having them block off the action of other PCs constantly is problematic. Any of these issues, by themselves are not too bad. However, cumulatively, they tend to reduce the fun at the table - and when it does so, it tends to impact the entire group, not just the PC making the choice to be big.

All that being said - I've had plenty of large PCs at my table. They have been problematic at times. When a PC wants to run a large PC, I run it by the other players before allowing it and if anyone is hesitant (which they rarely are), I say as a DM I decided it would not work for the current game. However, we've seen it used with full agreement by all players only for it to cause frustration later on in the game, so I do understand the hesitancy.

EDIT: As a player, my first big experience with the situation was when my human paladin was killed in a battle with an ogre after a fellow PC goaded me into being brave and charging into the battle. One critical hit later and my paladin was dead dead. The player of the goading PC felt horrible, so the DM provided an out by having a nearby druid offer to reincarnate my paladin - who came back as a centaur. That turned my 2nd level PC into the equivalent of an 8th level PC under those rules ... and I spent one additional session before retiring the PC. During that session, it was the PC's size, rather than the high hp and attacks, that was causing disruptions to the game and making my PC 'unfun' for the group.
 

DND_Reborn

Legend
Well they have claimed that being large comes with various benefits that are hard to desogjm around. Not to mention PCs may not automatically get the npc extra dice of damage.

The extra dice is roughly comparable to the polearm master feat except it scales better with multiple attacks.

Recent race design has also had a lot of power creep in mordenkainen's (both of them) and Fizbans.

Anyway even with the bonus dice of damage an PCs may not get that as it's an NPC.

Flying creates all sorts of headaches in general to the extent anything flying is automatically banned in my games. AFAIK there's 3 official flyers not just the Aaracokra.

Anyway thoughts?
I don't really have any issue with Large or Flying races for PCs provided the race fits the current campaign.
 


BookTenTiger

He / Him
Who's "they"?
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MNblockhead

A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
I don't have an issue with either. I think the problem with large-sized characters is that most adventures are written with the assumption that all PCs will be medium or smaller. If you are creating your own adventures or running more outdoor adventures, that shouldn't be an issue.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Recent race design has also had a lot of power creep in mordenkainen's (both of them) and Fizbans.
Can you expand on this? I am not seeing power creep, I'm seeing a bunch of races that were behind the power curve getting brought up to standard. (looking at you, Genasi). Think like moving from 1d4 natural weapons to 1d6 unarmed strikes - makes them on-par instead of eclipsed by anyone with simple weapon prof, but moves them away from weapons that can get various buffs (divine smite, etc.) to unarmed.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I think that they left too little design space in the races so they dont' feel they can put in any powerful features. Considering both your reaction and the general outcry when permanent flying races were introduced, it shows that there doesn't feel like there's enough goodies in the other races to balance it. There insufficient opportunity cost.

I don't have a problem with large size, though if we give it weapon bonuses I fear we may be starting a "all weapon wielders must be large else they are at a disadvantage vs. the large ones".
 

Vaalingrade

Legend
The unreasonable fear of flying from 3e (where DMs apparently hadn't heard of advanced technology like trees or 'the indoors') had to earth itself somewhere after 5e blew it wide open with a core flying species.

Fear of Largeness is a little more reasonable as there's more actual work dealing with Large creatures than fliers.

Of course if you embrace abstraction and consider the M square is the point of origin for any auras and the square that has to be drawn through for LoE, and everything else works as Large, it's not a big deal.
 

Laurefindel

Legend
I don't have an issue with either. I think the problem with large-sized characters is that most adventures are written with the assumption that all PCs will be medium or smaller. If you are creating your own adventures or running more outdoor adventures, that shouldn't be an issue.
I believe it has more to do with the expectation of how the adventure will be run, regardless whether the adventure is published or homebrewed.
 

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