Lashlashlashlashlashlashlash!

[AGGEMAM]

As most others have said TWF doesn't work with Ranged weapons.

So what that does not prevent you from dual wielding it at all. Just as TWF is not required for dual wielding daggers.

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

So what that does not prevent you from dual wielding it at all. Just as TWF is not required for dual wielding daggers.

Correct, but you wouldn't be able to get extra attacks from Improved TWF, Greater TWF, etc.

 

[hammymchamham]

Correct, but you wouldn't be able to get extra attacks from Improved TWF, Greater TWF, etc.

I know its not offical and all, but if I had a player that wanted to do this, I personally would let them do the TWF chain with whips. But I'd never expect a DM of mine to do it (unless I asked nicely maybe

 

[Korak]

Unfortunate rule

Just wanted to summarize and correct a few things.

The correct penalty for dual wielding whips is -4/-8. That is the standard penalty for dual wielding light weapons. If you are ambidextrous, then the penalty is -4/-4. If you were dual wielding medium sized weapons, then the penalties would be -6/-10 or -6/-6.

As written in the second printing PHB, TWF was NOT restricted to melee weapons. The word "melee" appeared nowhere in the feat text. However, in the latest FAQ the feat was restricted to melee weapons with the following text:

Note that the Two-Weapon Fighting feat is for melee and does not lessen the penalties for using two ranged weapons.

- From D&D Main FAQ 11/22/02

So, as has been said above, TWF and subsequent feats will not add extra attacks/reduce penalties. Even so, a lasher can get a great number of attacks.

The level 16 character mentioned above could have the following attacks:
4 attacks base
+1 rapid shot
+1 offhand
+2 Crack of Doom/Fate
+1 Haste
-----------------
9 whip attacks total (one in offhand).


-- Korak

 

[hammymchamham]

Re: Unfortunate rule

As written in the second printing PHB, TWF was NOT restricted to melee weapons. The word "melee" appeared nowhere in the feat text. However, in the latest FAQ the feat was restricted to melee weapons with the following text:
- From D&D Main FAQ 11/22/02

Correct, bit the 2nd (and first) printing of the PHB does have this restriction, very well hidden. Check Equipment, under the description of the heavy crossbow. There you will find the restriction on fighting with ranged weapons and two weapon fighting. To quote from the SRD

Crossbow, Heavy: A heavy crossbow requires two hands to use effectively, regardless of the user's size. Loading a heavy crossbow is a full-round action that provokes attacks of opportunity.

A Medium-size or larger character can shoot, but not load, a heavy crossbow with one hand at a -4 penalty. A Medium-size or larger character can shoot a heavy crossbow with each hand at a -6 penalty, plus the usual -4 penalty for the off-hand attack (-6 primary hand/-10 off hand). The Two-Weapon Fighting feat does not reduce these penalties because it represents skill with melee weapons, not ranged weapons. The Ambidexterity feat lets someone avoid the -4 off-hand penalty (-6 primary hand/-6 off hand).

 

[Korak]

Good find

Ahh, I had not ever noticed that, as I consider crossbows to be virtually useless unless you are not proficient with bows (a charcter type I have never played). Well hidden indeed.

--Korak

 

[hammymchamham]

Re: Good find

Ahh, I had not ever noticed that, as I consider crossbows to be virtually useless unless you are not proficient with bows (a charcter type I have never played). Well hidden indeed.

--Korak

Yeah, its easy to miss, I did until someone else mentioned it in a simular thread about whips within the last couple days

 

[reapersaurus]

just wanted to add that that hidden rule (limiting TWF within the crossbow weapon description) is one of the prime examples of a bad job of presenting the rules that 3E occasionally has.

For years, people have criticized Wizards for it.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Whaddya mean, the x-bow rule is plain as day, is it not ?