Lazy DMs doing stupid things

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Yea. I start off with PHB ONLY for players, and add data little by little from there. I'm all the way up to allowing 3/4 of the feats in Complete Warrior and maybe 1/5 of the feats from C.Divine and C.Arcane.

I've allowed in ONE prestige class in the last, what, 3-4 years? Which, oddly enough, was the Mighty Contender of Kord from Dragon Magazine ... which was in no way overpowered and which was very much a role-playing situation. I really liked that experience with PrCs.

Folks dropping into PrCs at 5th level seems a little odd, as it is usually 6th to get in, many are 7 or 8. And any class where you have to sit down with the GM and say: "Okay, here's the XXX many things I can turn into ... when I do this, you have to do this ... and when I do this, you'll have to do this ... " That's pretty easy to chalk up to BROKETACULAR.

The GM should know what a PC is capable of, but shouldn't have to familiarize himself with a dozen alternate forms which can only be countered with specific tactics. If the GM spends all of his time catering to one broken PC, I think it's totally within his rights to review a decision and make changes.

ESPECIALLY since this is a 4th-Party created class. It's not DMG, it's not WotC, it's not 3rd party publisher, it's fan-created. That puts it way way out in my stink-o-meter zone.

Guess you got stuck coming to a board frequented by GMs. I'd say the GM should talk with the player, but since its his game, and it's such an off-the-wall situation created by this player wanting to play an admittedly broken PrC and grudgingly changing to a slightly-less-broken PrC, that you guys should work WITH HIM more, instead of trying to strong-arm him into continuing with stuff that is stressing him out.

--fje

 

[Murrdox]

It sounds to me like your DM has bitten off more than he can chew.

As players advance in levels, they become more powerful. They can teleport, travel the planes, have a miriad of methods to find out information, and can forge magical items, and even more.

The more powers the players have, the more difficult it is for a DM to properly anticipate them.

A level 14 character is fairly powerful.

To me, it sounds like the DM just doesn't want to deal with the power level of the character. It's too much work for him. He'd rather just nerf the character, since it's the easiest solution.

I think your DM would be more comfortable if you all stepped down to the 8-12 level range. Maybe he needs a bit more experience.

However, I don't think your DM is breaking your friend's character. It doesn't sound like he's completely removing your shifter powers, just making a few relatively major adjustments. I think the campaign will most likely be just as enjoyable without these additional powers.

 

[Stalker0]

First of, what's a dm whose only played for a year doing running a 14th level game

Second, the dm has a right to nerf a class that he feels is too powerful. And you are talking about a completely custom class based on a prc that is extremely powerful.

Now, he should be able to explain why he thinks its too powerful, but give him some slack, he is new and running a 14th level game. That's hard on anyone.

 

[KarinsDad]

Do you want some cheese with that whine?

My advice (since you asked for advice): Suck it up. The person having the problem is you, not the DM.


PS. We have been playing our current campaign for two months now and as DM, I just this week (for the first rule change in the campaign) changed Spell Channeling and Arcane Strike to follow all of the rules of spell casting (except time to cast which matches the ability and the feat). Why? Because they are overpowered IMO. For example, Spell Channeling gets the advantages of 3 Sudden Silents, 3 Sudden Stills, 3 Sudden Quickens, (without increasing the casting time for a Sorcerer either), Eschew Materials, does not provoke AoOs, and hence does not require Cast Defensively, does not have arcane spell failure, etc. because you are not actually "casting a spell". You get to cast a spell without any of the potential disadvantages or limitations of casting it.

My player said: "Ok". He is mature enough to understand that some things are broken and I am mature enough to understand to not nerf things so heavily that the player does not have fun (in this case, it will rarely affect him, but it on occasion will).


He's the DM, get over it.


PSS. This is not your character. Why are you getting your panties in a bind over it?

PSSS. Advice for how to handle a DM does not belong in this forum.

 

[Bat]

My main problem with this is that I can no longer trust the DM. What is going to keep him from doing this again? When does my warmage become too powerful and have to be nerfed? My main fear is that I will start to use spells that I have every right to use and the DM will be like: "I don't like those spells, they are too powerful, so you can't use them." Hence, my coming here to ask for advice on what to do, outside of quitting. As I said, I do not wish to quit, I am looking for other ways to solve this. As I said, I do not trust the DM anymore. I probably should quit the campagin, but, as I said, I cannot find another game around here and I wish to keep playing. It has been fun up to this point.

When I posted this I did not expect to be flamed; I also did not construe this as whining. I was merely explaining the situation and how I felt about it. If it came across that way, you missed my point entirely. As I said, I am honestly trying to find a way to fix this trust problem I have with the DM. I came here looking for advice, not expecting to be attacked for simply asking advice from more experianced players. If you cannot add something useful to the discussion, and wish only to attack me, please refrain.

 

[LostSoul]

Does anyone have any suggestions as how to deal with this, outside of quitting? I am prepared to quit over it, but, as stated above, would prefer to find a solution to this problem, as I do like to play, and as I do not want to make my suitemate angry with me for quitting his campagin over something that really has nothing to do with me.

It does have to do with you; it's a totally arbitrary ruling that ignores a lot of the work your friend has done (talking to the DM, making concessions). If he does that to one guy, who says you won't be next? The DM broke the social contract.

The only advice I have is to tell him how you feel, and that you're willing to quit over it. If he doesn't want to compromise, quit. Life's too short to play bad RPGs.

Edit: I see this as an example of why Rule 0 sucks. Some DMs read Rule 0 to mean, "I'm the DM, I can break the social contract."

 

[IcyCool]

My main fear is that I will start to use spells that I have every right to use and the DM will be like: "I don't like those spells, they are too powerful, so you can't use them."

What makes you think you have any right to use those spells? The DM runs the game and the DM calls the shots. He might not make good calls, but they are his to make. If you don't like it, then talk to him. Or quit. Have you tried talking to him about these spells? Have you mentioned that you'd like to use them? Have you told him that his efforts to maintain balance are ruining your fun? Have you told him you are thinking about quitting?

Don't be surprised if he's fine with you quitting though. When did players start getting this feeling of entitlement?

Edit - This isn't a flame, I'd honestly like answers to the questions I posted.

 

[LostSoul]

Don't be surprised if he's fine with you quitting though. When did players start getting this feeling of entitlement?

When we realized we were spending time playing.

 

[IcyCool]

When we realized we were spending time playing.

Then don't play with that GM.

This isn't rocket science.

 

[Bat]

What makes you think you have any right to use those spells? The DM runs the game and the DM calls the shots. He might not make good calls, but they are his to make. If you don't like it, then talk to him. Or quit. Have you tried talking to him about these spells? Have you mentioned that you'd like to use them? Have you told him that his efforts to maintain balance are ruining your fun? Have you told him you are thinking about quitting?

Don't be surprised if he's fine with you quitting though. When did players start getting this feeling of entitlement?

Edit - This isn't a flame, I'd honestly like answers to the questions I posted.

I am playing a Warmage, a PRC from Compelte Arcane. The Warmage gets new spells that are in CA, in additon to spells in the PH. However, the spells I am looking forward to using are not in that book; they are in the PH, and, if I was playing a sorcerer instead, I would be using them. Examples include Finger of Death, Horrid Wilting, Prismatic Wall and Weird. I would understand if he took away spells from CA, like the Orb spells. He has already changed death spells like Finger of Death and Weird; instead of causing instant death, like the description says, they now do 20 d6 + 1d6 for every caster level above 10th. I have no problem with that; he stated that he thought instant death spells were too powerful and this was his fix. I was like: "Dang, I like instant death spells, but OK, I can see why you would do that, you won't get an argument from me about me." On to my answer to your question: I think that most people would agree that the things in the 3.5 PH are fairly well-balanced. I know some won't agree to that, but I believe most will. I think that if I want to use spells from the PH, that are on my class spell list, I should have a right to use those spells. As I stated earlier, I would be understanding if he chose to remove new spells from CA, even if I didn't like it. However, given the fact that he has now said: "I don't like that so I am summarily changing it", I fear he might do the same to my character, and prevent me from using some of the spells that every arcane caster looks forward to using.