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5E legal staff and shield for hexblade?

brehobit

Explorer
Hi folks,
I want to check if the following is legal.
Could I take a hexblade (playtest version at least), wield an arcane focus staff and a shield and still:
  • Use Hex Warrior to add charisma for attack and damage
  • Take full advantage of polearm mastery?
  • Cast spells freely (no "item manipulation" stuff)?
 

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Nick Hatfield

First Post
You will have to take the War Caster feat in order to deal with the somatic components of spells. There is also some debate whether an arcane staff is the same as a quarterstaff, but if you take War Caster you can just wield a quarterstaff and have your focus/competent pouch as well.
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
You will have to take the War Caster feat in order to deal with the somatic components of spells. There is also some debate whether an arcane staff is the same as a quarterstaff, but if you take War Caster you can just wield a quarterstaff and have your focus/competent pouch as well.
I think you can perform somatic components with the hand holding your focus.
 


brehobit

Explorer
So it sounds like the whole thing would work? Seems like a cool build other than AC problems. Might start as a fighter for medium armor prof, good con saves, and a few other benefits. 1st level will suck (STR 10, Dex 14, feat has to do with weapon he won't be using) but after that, looks great.
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
So it sounds like the whole thing would work? Seems like a cool build other than AC problems. Might start as a fighter for medium armor prof, good con saves, and a few other benefits. 1st level will suck (STR 10, Dex 14, feat has to do with weapon he won't be using) but after that, looks great.
hexblade already grants med armor of course.
 


Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I think you can perform somatic components with the hand holding your focus.
Technically, you can only perform somatic components with the hand holding your focus IF the spell also has material components.

Odd and counter-intuitive. I'm not fond of it, but that's technically the rule. I house rule it at my table.
 


wield an arcane focus staff
An arcane focus is a special item that costs a lot of money (it is 25× the cost of a quarterstaff). Do you really want to be whacking dirty monsters with it?

Depending on what it is made of, an arcane focus might be too fragile to use in combat (more than once, anyway). Combat might wreck its ornate decoration and arcane ingredients, making it useless for spellcasting.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
An arcane focus is a special item that costs a lot of money (it is 25× the cost of a quarterstaff). Do you really want to be whacking dirty monsters with it?

Depending on what it is made of, an arcane focus might be too fragile to use in combat (more than once, anyway). Combat might wreck its ornate decoration and arcane ingredients, making it useless for spellcasting.
Sounds like a question for the DM. I've had it come up at one table I played with and the DM was fine with it being sturdy but you could go the other way as well.

Personally I allow it as well - it both fits my vision of what Gandalf carries, but also mimics that magic item staffs can be used as quarterstaves (DMG pg 140 under Staffs). Plus you can have a Holy Symbol on a shield getting smashed by ogre's mauls without problem and it's the same cost, it doesn't seem like there's anything inherently weak as long as your base item is sufficient.

As for the psychological issue you mentioned: If the cost - 5gp - was too expensive to band on dirty monsters, we'd have to give up every martial melee weapon except the whip since all the others cost 5gp or more.
 

iamntbatman

First Post
Just FYI - the new Improved Pact Weapon invocation in Xanathar's allows your Pact of the Blade warlock pact weapon to count as your spell focus.
 

Volund

Explorer
Check out the June 5 UA Subclasses release (apparently also in XGtE). One of the features of the Improved Pact Weapon invocation is that Bladelocks can use their pact weapon as their arcane focus. If you go Pact of the Blade at level 3, you can retrain one of your level 2 invocations to take IPW so your pact weapon quarterstaff can be your arcane focus.

And yes, Hexblade can take PAM to use a quarterstaff one-handed (PAM doesn't say anything about 2 handed weapons - that's what GWM is for). I was working on this exact same build a few days ago. Take Devil's Sight and IPW as your invocations. Curse an enemy and cloak yourself in Darkness. Attack with advantage, crit on about 10% of attacks. After attacking step back 10 feet without provoking AoO because they can't see you. Anyone moving within 5 feet triggers your PAM AoO. Their attacks have disadvantage. Powerful stuff at level 3.
 

Horwath

Adventurer
An arcane focus is a special item that costs a lot of money (it is 25× the cost of a quarterstaff). Do you really want to be whacking dirty monsters with it?

Depending on what it is made of, an arcane focus might be too fragile to use in combat (more than once, anyway). Combat might wreck its ornate decoration and arcane ingredients, making it useless for spellcasting.
when any time I hear that argument, I show them scenes of Gandalf whacking everything with his staff.
 

Coroc

Hero
Now a designated two handed weapon like the quarterstaff is applicable to polearm mastery also while used 1h with a shield? Seriously? Really?

Is this RAW?

I cannot believe this is RAW or if it is RAI.

Tell me, oh masters of the martial art what wonder is that simple 6 feet stick that with adequate Training is able to strike 2x (Polearm mastery) when it cannot be done with a Club, it is basically a spear without tip but does the same damage if used with 2 Hands. Cmon now get real, i do not wanna call somebody elses stick (lol) badwrongfun but aint it time to add pommel mastery to sword fighters to balance things out again?

Pommel mastery feat: as a Bonus Action you can *unscrew the pommel of your sword and throw it at your opponent to end him rightly
(For 1d12 additional damage and allows the use of two shields at the same time eventually to stay true to the polearm staff shield masteries tone?)

(*This is from some real medieval fencing handbooks illustration, maybe meant as a joke, google it or search on scholagladiatora YT channel for source)
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Now a designated two handed weapon like the quarterstaff is applicable to polearm mastery also while used 1h with a shield? Seriously? Really?

Is this RAW?

I cannot believe this is RAW or if it is RAI.
To assuage your disbelief, please look at page 149 of the PHB. In 5e the quarterstaff is a one handed weapon that, like the longsword, is Versatile to allow it to do more damage in two hands. I'm sure you can find multiple weapon scholars who already wail and gnash their teeth at the weapons in various editions of D&D. Especially the swords.

Feel free to change this at your table, but stomping over someone else's thread claiming something isn't RAW when a quick check in the most obvious location shows that it is - well, that's poor forum etiquette. We should all strive to do better.
 

Now a designated two handed weapon like the quarterstaff is applicable to polearm mastery also while used 1h with a shield? Seriously? Really?

Is this RAW?

I cannot believe this is RAW or if it is RAI.
In 5e, "Quarterstaff" is a Versatile weapon. I understand that means it represents any stick used to beat people with between 3-7 feet long. As a versatile weapon, it can indeed be used one-handed. With a shield. Its definitely RAW, and possibly RAI.
Our group unanimously houseruled that Quarterstaff isn't versatile, but a two-handed weapon instead.

Tell me, oh masters of the martial art what wonder is that simple 6 feet stick that with adequate Training is able to strike 2x (Polearm mastery) when it cannot be done with a Club, it is basically a spear without tip but does the same damage if used with 2 Hands. Cmon now get real, i do not wanna call somebody elses stick (lol) badwrongfun but aint it time to add pommel mastery to sword fighters to balance things out again?
Yes its ridiculous. Blame Horwath:
when any time I hear that argument, I show them scenes of Gandalf whacking everything with his staff.
:mad:
 

Coroc

Hero
[MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION] sorry that the irony in my post was not obvious enough, at no means i intended criticize the OP for the absurdities that wizards sometimes puts into their rules. I did know about the versatility of the quarterstaff and i did know that PM could be used with it.

What did not occur to me until this thread, is that somehow according to RAW, you could use PM and quarterstaff in a 1 handed and shield Combo.

Which means quarterstaff doing 1d6 + 1d4 would be the ultimate 1h weapon with this feat.

Besides being absurd in a make believe way of things , ist an OP Combo. But it is obviously a legal loophole in the rules.

I wonder, is no one at wizards noting such things? That rule shouts for a revision via sage advice or ua whatever.

@ Cap'n Kobold Personally i got no prob. since as a DMi houserule quarterstaff is 1d6 2handed use only, like it should be. Use your polearm master with it if you like to but it is not the uber combo anymore.

We got thousands of threads when People start arguing over 0.5 Points of dpr of certain things and no one is disturbed by this Combo.
 


Coroc

Hero
If someone would want to use a quarterstaff 1 handed in my campaign I would rule it doing 1d4 (1d6 versatile) just for the balance of things.

I once read a thread at RPG world with a guy insisting on dual wielding 2 lances (irony on: 100 ways of making meself looking ridicoulus or where does the oversized two handed sword go dragging the gnome behind, just blame it on WoW) /irony off

Also I somehow now think about buying ladders cut them in half vertically to get 10 foot poles and crafting 2 quarterstaffs from each, nah lets better take spears and cut the tips off to make them more effective why the hell did anybody put a tip on a spear, that is so noob , dual wielding them while carrying a shield on the back, ah sorry that's my sarcasm again and I really do not want to hijack this thread.
 

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