D&D 5E Let us "fix" Expertise!

[Zubatcarteira]

Without magic items, a level 20 Greatsword Fighter can have the same AC as a level 1 sword and shield Fighter (Plate vs Chain Mail and shield). It barely scales up if you don't go out of your way to do it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

No, there's some difference. With 5e bounded accuracy, a level 1 character still has a decent chance to hit a level 20 character with an attack or spell. With PF2, a level 1 character has no chance at all to hit a level 20.

which is precisely what makes bounded accuracy superior.

 

[TwoSix]

which is precisely what makes bounded accuracy superior.

I prefer the more limited power scaling of 5e, but "superior" is a little more normative than I like. PF2's scaling simply supports a different kind of fiction; it gives me more of a vibe of xianxia/cultivation stories.

 

[DND_Reborn]

While I think +1 per level is a bit much, a progression which maxes out at +12 or so works well IMO. So, +2,+3,+3,+4,+4,...,+11,+11,+12.

Then with the +5 for ability you have +17. And expertise might just add half proficiency or something?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I prefer the more limited power scaling of 5e, but "superior" is a little more normative than I like. PF2's scaling simply supports a different kind of fiction; it gives me more of a vibe of xianxia/cultivation stories.

The PF2 style scaling is more limited. You can use very simple optional rules to make a ssytem like 5e support stories where PCs become untouchable by lesser mortals, but going the other direction requires much more work.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

Doesn't PF2 have an optional rule that doesn't add level to proficiency? Should make it more similar to 5e, number-wise.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Doesn't PF2 have an optional rule that doesn't add level to proficiency? Should make it more similar to 5e, number-wise.

That is just changing the game to bounded accuracy. You could do the opposite with 5e just as easily.

Without changing the basic system being used, it's easier to add a tier bonus to your numbers, or add a rule that NPCs whose CR is equal to your proficiency bonus or lower just die when you attack them, or something like that, is easier than figuring out a simple way to buff low level enemies and make them better able to threaten high level PCs.

 

[Zubatcarteira]

I don't see how making up a whole new rule is easier than not adding your level to stats and rolls.