D&D 5E (2014) Lethality in 5e: what is your preference and how do you achieve it?

This is something I like to let the players decide. Using the no guts no glory paradigm there are certain rewards one has to be bold to obtain. The decision to go slow and sure for maximum survivability or to go after the big prizes at greater risk is in the players hands. Some rewards are time sensitive and can vanish if enough dithering about happens. Do you want glory, or do you want to make a steady living in obscurity?

Those who choose to be heroes do so knowing it means risking their lives.
 

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I try to blend low/high lethality.

In the past 4 years of 3.Xe play, from a party of 6 players, I've lost 9 PCs. I consider that too high of death rate to be ideal. However, in 8 of the 9 cases, the cause of death was simply 'splitting the party' and death would not have occurred if the party had stayed together and played well. I consider that the ideal situation, in as much as death is an ever present possibility but all but the worst run of luck allows death to be reliably avoided by skillful play. So despite the fact that we've lost more PCs than is ideal - in fact, I'd be happy with zero deaths - I consider the system working as designed.

I build in pretty heavy safeguards against bad luck. In addition to D&D's standard 'death recovery mechanisms' for high level play (Resurrection, Wish, etc.), these include higher starting hit points (similar to but slightly different than the 4e methodology), recoverable destiny point resources which can be used to reroll saving throws, avert critical hits, and otherwise give 1 time luck mitigation, mechanically defined 'Divine Intervention' chances with a small chance a deity will intervene in some mechanically definable way, and character resources that allow for death recovery mechanisms in narrowly defined circumstances even from low level (such as the Feat 'Master Physician').

Destiny points have probably prevented as much as a dozen deaths from occurring due to bad luck from ill timed critical hits or fumbled saving throws. Low level recovery mechanism have prevented two additional deaths. Divine Intervention has prevented 3 additional deaths (via deities casting Sanctuary, Dispel Magic, and Monster Summoning V on the pleading players behalf). And that's to not even get into the question of how many deaths at lower levels were prevented by having a larger cushion of hit points mitigating against enemy lucky sequences of hits or unavoidable damage bursts.

The large number of averted 'unfair deaths' suggests to me, that as I suspected, 3rd edition D&D has too few means of mitigating bad luck (too much 'Save or Die') when played RAW, leading to an unhealthy dependency in optimization, broken builds, exploiting oversights, and full immunities if you wanted to persist a character in play. Even beyond that, I'm still encountering problems in encounter design in balancing risk due to the large potentials for burst damage and continual 'save or die' risks leading to potentials for 'unfair' deaths while on the other hand actually challenging the PC's when this threats are not on the table. I could almost entirely avoid any risk of deaths in a coherent party if I kept the EL down deliberately, but doing so risks continual 'cake walks'. One prevalent problem I have that I don't believe has a solution is that as party size increases, the chance that burst damage from any encounter that challenges the party as a whole will overwhelm a single unfortunate character increases. I've fond myself ad-hocing area of effect attacks (such as trample) on several occasions to distribute damage more equitably than the usual claw/claw/bite or similar attack routine, which suggests some likely changes in the monster rules when I get around to writing my version of the Monster Manual. Right now I'm having a huge problem with 'Swallow Whole' in simulated play that I think is going to require immediate changes in the grappling rules.

So, while on the one hand I agree that the designers of 4e and 5e were facing problems that needed to be fixed, I'm not entirely sure the particular techniques being used actually maintain drama during play. That said, I don't think the problem of lethality in either 4e or 5e is as large as some of the detractors state, but rather both systems require changes from the 1e/3e mindset if you are to achieve either high lethality or great tension and the sense of impending and continual risk. If I had to guess from reading the rules where the real problem lies, it's not with the lethality rules, but overcompensating with the rest rules to try to produce encounters that play out predictably for a given challenge level. I think the biggest problem with 4e/5e lethality is that it removes the attrition of resources play style that was particularly indicative of TSR era D&D.
 
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The answer to "How often should a game see a PC die" and "How often should there be a TPK" is the same.

"As often as the players and [randomness of the] dice make it so."

Death is a real risk of the game and real consequence of PC in-/action. The players understand that from the word go. They are the crafters of the story that will be getting told, through their characters' actions. If their actions lead to a "no win situation", by whatever path (as many have already been detailed): poor planning, not realizing/underestimating the strength/danger of the threat/challenge, refusing to retreat when it becomes obvious/necessary/prudent, and (more outside the control of the players or DM) mitigated by the randomness of the dice rolls, whether poor rolls for the players or particularly good ones for the DM, can all lead to a character and/or total party death.

I, as DM, am not "out to get/kill" the PCs. But through story or chance, it happens/can happen. The players understand that and, also as others have already noted, it adds to the excitement and challenge of the game to know that.

A game in which no one can die (other than through some kind of "story fiat" and/or player desire) is not a game in which I have any desire in participating. There is no challenge in "plot immunity" (or whatever that term is for untouchable PCs).

As to the second part of the questions posed, and they are not really necessarily linked to my mind, "How easy and/or costly is it to reverse death?" that is a case-by-case basis.

In my campaign setting, I have a detailed pantheon and use a kind of 2e-ish "clerical spheres of magic" breakdown for my clerics. So, there are...3?...goddess of Life/Healing/Fortitude, goddess of Death/Prophecy/Judge of Souls, and supreme "King of the Gods" god of good/light/all that jazz (4! If you count the Elder god of Evil who will bring folks back to serve them). Yeah, only 3 possible deities that gain access to Raise Dead in the first place. There would be several others that could use Revivify. So that's one hurdle, is there a cleric around that could cast it in the first place.

The second is finding/being in a location that has a priest/-ess of sufficient level to use one of those spells.

The third, more story-driven/player's choice, is the goddess of Death going to allow you to return and under what circumstances [Is the tapestry of your life complete? Has the candle of your soul burned completely down/out?]?

As for other means: a rejuvenating fountain, portal to/from the afterlife, breaking into the wealthy noble's estate who is reputed to have an Elixir of Life (or Spell Scroll of Raise Dead), etc... those are/become available as the players decide/need. If a quest to bring back Doldo the Dwarf is agreed upon by the players/PCs, then that's what they're going to do. Lots of research. Hunt down leads. Finally go on the quest for the Macguffin of Soul Retrieval that will "circumvent" the goddess of Death's wishes/power (not a great plan ;) ). So be it.

Quick aside, it used to be part of the "Standard Operating Procedures" of our parties, in 1-2e days, that as part of the adventuring "company" you were contractually obligated to bring back slain PCs (and/or give them proper burial if it was not possible/player didn't want to). Since most deaths were not by the player's choice, going about the business/expense of bringing folks back to life was often a source of adventure for a session or more...at least until a party was capable of doing it themselves.

So, it is certainly not a given/easy (unless the party happen to mbe in a large city with a significant enough temple to house such an individual). As for cost. I generally do a standard 5,000 gp (in "donation" to the temple). But, of course, many a tale of daring-do have begun on the quest promised/traded to a temple or deity in exchange for the ritual...particularly to return lower leveled PCs.

But returning from death is not always a desired option and is, ultimately, player's choice. Does the soul/character, after experiencing their afterlife [good or ill] want to come back? It's the player's decision.

I have had players (more than one over the years) who simply want to change their character. They want to play something else. They get bored cuz they hit a certain level and nothing feels like a challenge anymore. The spellcasters seem to be having "more fun." The elf PCs are always [seem to be] saving the day, so they want to ditch their dwarf for an elf. The party's in a new place/environment [and will be there a while] and they have an idea/concept to play someone from that locale. There are loads of others, I'm sure.

This can be accomplished by any number of "in-game reasons" (and I often try/prefer to make sure it is, rather than just "I [the Player] wanna kill them off"): the PC decides its time to "retire"/the last battle was "too close a call." The PC gets called away on a more important mission. The PC is swept away in a magical tornado/vortex/puff of cloud and noone really knows what happened to them, etc... I've had one (at least, that I remember) particularly impatient player have their PC commit suicide -walked off an impossibly high cliff. Just walked off...- since she didn't want to "wait" for the story exit of her PC (and was all pouty the whole -I think it was about 15-30 minutes, no longer than a half hour- waiting for a convenient in-story place to introduce her new one).

In another case, a player was moving away and wanted [their character] to leave the campaign in a "save the day/battle tale for the ages/blaze of glory" rather than just have them wander off into the sunset to [possibly] come back at some undetermined future time (denying me a great NPC for me to use in the world, in the process. grr.).

TPK's are another story and really can't be accomplished without multiple bad [for the party, whichever side of the screen they're on] dice rolls and/or many significantly poor player/character decisions. I haven't really had many, that I can think of. But I certainly wouldn't/won't/don't shy away from it if it happens.

Tangent? What tangent? :p

So anyway, yes, lethality in game is important...and in my particular case for game enjoyment, as DM or player, necessary. I suppose, if we want to do a [completely arbitrary] scale of "How high/low lethality works for you?"

On a scale of 1-10, with 10 = a TPK every session and 1 = Never/PC plot immunity, I'd be a staunch 6 or 7. If it happens. It happens. My monsters/NPCs are going to act as makes sense. I'm not going to pull punches or fudge rolls...ok, maybe, very rarely, I might "smudge" dice or story a bit in a PC's favor in the case of some uncannily poor dice/luck. It happens. We've all seen it. I can't, in good conscience, kill off a "beloved" PC because the player's dice have been rolling 1s all night (or mine have been rolling 20s).

I'll do that for a given character once! But I can't/won't "save them" that way in the face of player decisions. You gotta know when it's time to RUN!

But none of those 6 or 7 points are me, as DM, trying to kill anyone...other than in-game "makes sense" reasons, i.e. The BBEG is after you and wants you dead. They're going to use what's at their disposal to make that happen.
 


I prefer death to be less common, but also final.

I intend to achieve this in 5E by staying under level 9, and using the Lingering Injuries rules to replace extra damage on a critical hit.
 

sort of on topic, what I'd like to have seen in the DMG is an optional rule for permanent damage for when you did go into death saves. More flavor text than an actual modifier, but things like "jagged scar running the length of your face." or "noticeable limp" or something like that.
 

I prefer character death to happen once per every time I get bored with my current character.
 

If a campaign goes a year without a PC death, then it doesn't seem like there's heroic level of risk.

But it doesn't take more than that for the risk to be a known real factor, and to inspire caution.

In what real-world venue is the death rate (among participants) over 5% per year? War, at least some wars; what else?
 

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