D&D General (+) Let's give good things to Fighters

[fluffybunbunkittens]

For combat, all melee warriors need a way to deal with fliers/teleporters. It's bad enough that it should be formalized, so a core feature should be you picking whether you wuxia fly on your sword over there / Scorpion get-over-here them to you / misty step but only next to hostile people etc. (stuff like trident having topple mastery doesn't help, because if a creature can naturally hover or flies magically, getting knocked prone/restrained doesn't make them fall)

And oh yeah, if Fighter is supposed to be 'the best at combat', let's give them 1-3 (based on level) picks before each battle, where they can swap around initiative positions, declare there to be battlefield features like spiked pits and hanging chandeliers, improve the morale of their party, negate a status effect for their party for the duration of the battle, etc.

Out of combat, I don't think just upping their skill totals is satisfactory, because only the one character with the highest score in the party matters so UA7Fighter/UA7Barbarian/Rogue/Ranger may easily make each other pointless, while spells generally just solve problems without rolls (and then there's Bards, with spells and Expertise and useful stats). I don't want to compete with those, I want them to do something of their own, that preferrably works with the party. Like, Leadership (delegate your failed roll to a companion to retry), Tactical (after an ally fails any roll by 1 or 2, roll against the same skill DC10 to make it succeed), Resourcefulness (no matter whether the check succeeds or fails, if the roll was an even value, you get some kind of a bonus), Advisor (+2 to others' skill rolls with skills you are proficient in), whatever. Yeah, these wouldn't really make you better, because I think that spot's already taken, but at least you'd have a skill-related role.

 

[bert1001 fka bert1000]

You could do worse than combing through 4e and adapting the at will and encounter powers from the fighters. Especially from levels 1-10, that can give the class so extra juice.

Agreed. I recently went back and looked at the 4e Fighter powers and was surprised that even at high level most are really mundane.

It worked well in 4e though in the context of encounter level magic being changed and by just allowing for damage AND effects more generously -- stun/daze/blind/etc, forced movement, positioning, self inspiration or healing, etc.

Definity lower level stuff in the context of 5e though.

 

[Baron Opal II]

For combat, all melee warriors need a way to deal with fliers/teleporters.

Learn numbing limb strike and grab a bow.

Which is to say, sometimes you need the right tool for the job. Sometimes that's a missile weapon.

Other ability: Water Stride - As long as you are not encumbered, you can run 5' x level across a liquid surface. At the end of the movement you sink if not on solid ground.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

Which is to say, sometimes you need the right tool for the job. Sometimes that's a missile weapon.

While I agree that not every approach needs to always be viable, if you have to switch to a ranged weapon every fight there's a caster/teleporter/flier, so... almost every fight, there is no reason to not make your character an archer in the first place. There should be viability to being a melee frontliner, over a dude holding two hand crossbows a mile away.

 

[Baron Opal II]

While I agree that not every approach needs to always be viable, if you have to switch to a ranged weapon every fight there's a caster/teleporter/flier, so... almost every fight, there is no reason to not make your character an archer in the first place. There should be viability to being a melee frontliner, over a dude holding two hand crossbows a mile away.

I don't think there is a caster/teleporter/flier every fight. And, if it is a winged flyer, you knock it out of the sky with your bow so you can hit it with your axe. The point of the bow is just to immobilize / stun / numb / whatever a wing so your can reach it with your melee.

If it is a wizard flyer, your wizard knocks it out of the sky and you run up an hit them with your axe. Preferably with a disorienting strike so they have to make a concentration check to cast a spell.

 

[Oofta]

For combat, all melee warriors need a way to deal with fliers/teleporters. It's bad enough that it should be formalized, so a core feature should be you picking whether you wuxia fly on your sword over there / Scorpion get-over-here them to you / misty step but only next to hostile people etc. (stuff like trident having topple mastery doesn't help, because if a creature can naturally hover or flies magically, getting knocked prone/restrained doesn't make them fall)

Or ... just make longbows versatile. That way strength based PCs have an effective ranged weapon. I've handed out items that grant boots of flying (even boots), thrown weapons that can return, etc. but that's at higher levels for my campaign. But versatile longbows are something that they can get from level 1.

 

[fluffybunbunkittens]

If it is a wizard flyer, your wizard knocks it out of the sky

Only if they have Earthbind ready to go and spend concentration on. Otherwise the flier stays hovering up there, regardless of status effects (except dead or unconscious). And needing a caster along with a specific spell to handle a common situation feels like it goes against the whole point of the thread...

 

[Tony Vargas]

Agreed. I recently went back and looked at the 4e Fighter powers and was surprised that even at high level most are really mundane.

There were a lot of what I called "dance step" exploits. some combination of move or shift before/after an attack(s) which push/pull/slide the target. Positioning mattered enough in 4e, as in 3e, movement couldn't be split by just anyone, and melee was a more viable option, for those to actually be fun, and each feel a bit unique and cool.
Also, limited uses don't just excuse an ability being better, they make an ability a bit cooler, because, you don't use it all the time. If you have three at-will abilities, and one is just a bit better than the others, you use it constantly. "Realistically" that not how fighting goes. Cinematically, that's not how fights are choreographed....
...in some other thread, someone mentioned Legolas as an appropriate example of a martial character. The 4e devs had already gone there, some of the more memorable tricks he did in the LotR films were directly ripped of by 4e - mostly for the Ranger. They became encounter or daily exploits. Of course, the reflexive objection to that is always "well why can he only do it once?" Well, y'know, when you watch the movie, those wild tricks are cool precisely because he doesn't do them every 6 seconds, in fact each one is done once....

 

[Minigiant]

Like I say in other thread.

We know what a Archmage, what is an Archwarrior?

Then slide fighter up and down that scale.

 

[Baron Opal II]

Only if they have Earthbind ready to go and spend concentration on. Otherwise the flier stays hovering up there, regardless of status effects (except dead or unconscious). And needing a caster along with a specific spell to handle a common situation feels like it goes against the whole point of the thread...

Well, there are a lot of spells that can crack that nut. Or, a fighter within 30 ft with the right maneuver and an axe, or 120 ft and a bow.

Stun the wizard with a shot to the forehead and at least they won't cast spells. Might drift away on the wind like an errant balloon. At best they fall from the sky.

My point is I dispute the ubiquity of non-winged flyers to the point that most fighters need to specialize in archery or require a maneuver that lets them hurl themselves into the air like Jack Palance.

And, if my experience is that variant, the we do need to remember that they're part of a team. They just might need the help of a Thief, Cleric, or (perish the thought) a wizard.

Heroic Oratory - During a short rest the fighter delivers an inspiring speech that grants advantage on saving throws vs fear for the next hour.