"Let's rest now"

[MarkB]

Just checked on Exodus Knife:

Exodus KnifeLevel 12 Uncommon
This insubstantial silver blade appears to cut through solid walls.
Wondrous Item 13,000 gp
Power Daily (Standard Action)
When you use the exodus knife to trace a doorway onto a solid object, it opens a portal into an empty extradimensional space 4 squares wide, 4 squares high, and 4 squares long.
While the door is open, anyone can enter, see into, or affect the extradimensional space. Only creatures inside the space can open or close the door (a minor action). Once closed, the door becomes invisible to anyone outside the extradimensional space. Creatures on the inside of the closed door can see out, but those outside can't see in. Creatures on one side of the closed door cannot affect creatures on the other side.
The extradimensional space lasts for 8 hours. Any creatures still in the space when the effect ends reappear in the closest unoccupied squares outside the door.

Heh, that's a long way from 3e's universally available, 2nd level Rope Trick spell!

Not entirely. As an item, it doesn't tie up any spell slots and isn't particularly expensive at Paragon levels - and, of course, anyone can use it. And 3e's Rope Trick only becomes viable as a resting area once you have a 9th-level caster, so that its duration exceeds an 8-hour rest.

Given the larger level range, 4e's 12th level is proportionally no higher than 3e's 9th level.

On the other hand, 4e's revised loot system does mean that it's now GM's prerogative as to whether the party obtain the knife, something I hadn't taken into account as I bought ours before we switched over to the rarity system.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Re '15 minute work day', and the players who say "let's rest now" in the middle of an assault on an organised dungeon - I used to just slaughter the PCs without compunction when they did that.
...
How do you handle it when a player says "Let's rest"?

PCs do that? To me it usually seems to be obvious as to what is and is not a safe locale. Then again, I rarely have the players fight more than one battle without traveling for a while and resting in the process. The whole '15-minute workday' and this resting issue seem very esoteric to me.

 

[Toben the Many]

Re '15 minute work day', and the players who say "let's rest now" in the middle of an assault on an organised dungeon - I used to just slaughter the PCs without compunction when they did that.

Now that I've mellowed in my old age, I've started giving them Nature/WIS/etc checks to understand the situation, and when they succeed I explain:

"OK, it's now getting dark, so far the goblins in goblin-town have been sleepy and disorganised, so you only face light opposition. If you now set up camp and rest in goblin town for six hours, the hundreds of goblins still in the ruins will get organised and come for you... Are you still going to rest?"

I worry a bit I'm not being enough of a rat bastard DM any more, but players these days seem to be so trained (brain washed?) to seek rest at any opportunity, I like now to give them a chance to reconsider before I slaughter their beloved PCs. When they get higher level I'll probably stop giving warnings, though.

How do you handle it when a player says "Let's rest"?

I agree entirely with how you did this. The characters are supposed to be experienced adventurers, even if the players are not.

Usually, if a PC does something not taking into account something I think their character should know, I'll give them a check like you did. In a room, sitting on a cushy chair, eating snacks, often the danger of a situation will escape players.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

If you're counting at-wills as mystical resources (which, yeah, technically they can be), then yes it is practically impossible for the party to be out of mystical resources all arcane and devine characters would have to be down or dead.

And frankly, a group that can be devastating with at-wills is good enough at tactics etc. that they would likely be devastating in any version of D&D and likely other games as well.

My point was that a 4e party will be just as challenged, if not more so, if not allowed to rest - though for maximum challenge the encounters have to be close together.

I agree.

Even though the PCs may have lots of healing surges, once they've used up their healing abilities, the fight gets a lot tougher. TPK territory the only time I used a wave like that. (It was only two waves!)

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

My point was that a 4e party will be just as challenged, if not more so, if not allowed to rest - though for maximum challenge the encounters have to be close together.

Agreed.

 

[I'm A Banana]

How do you handle it when a player says "Let's rest"?

There is a cost to every action.

If the party rests, the enemies act. They hire reinforcements. They get stronger. They re-equip. They repair the damage done. They flee the scene. They arrange an ambush.

In my 4e games, the party "earns" a rest after about 3 encounters or challenges. Once they earn a rest, I let them do it without problems. However, if they rest after 1 encounter, chances are good that the other 2 encounters come looking for them (both at once!).

 

[Ed_Laprade]

Just checked on Exodus Knife:

Exodus KnifeLevel 12 Uncommon
This insubstantial silver blade appears to cut through solid walls.
Wondrous Item 13,000 gp
Power Daily (Standard Action)
Only creatures inside the space can open or close the door (a minor action).

Um, doesn't that make the item useless? Since the user isn't inside the space when s/he creates it, s/he shouldn't be able to open the door! (Yeah, I know what they mean, but that's not what the description says. So either you missed a line, or they did.)

 

[MarkB]

Um, doesn't that make the item useless? Since the user isn't inside the space when s/he creates it, s/he shouldn't be able to open the door! (Yeah, I know what they mean, but that's not what the description says. So either you missed a line, or they did.)

Nothing there says the door starts out closed.

 

[was]

if they're not intelligent enough to seek a safe, secure place to rest than you should feel no remorse about hitting them with more encounters

 

[Jhaelen]

Now that I've mellowed in my old age, I've started giving them Nature/WIS/etc checks to understand the situation, and when they succeed I explain:

Man, you totally lost your edge!

When my players intend to do something stupid, all I need to do is aske them: "Are you sure you want to do this?". This typically initiates a discussion between them and they either reconsider immediately or they try to gather more information, similar to your example.

Knowledge checks are my favorite tool to give the players more background and setting information, since I figure it's stuff the pcs should really know having grown up in the setting's world and picked up the profession of adventurers.