"Let's rest now"

[kitsune9]

I find it annoying when my players want to hole up in the middle of the dungeon. I do at times make the enemy forces more organized, but I don't think I go far enough. For example:

1. Smart enemies know that if adventuring companies are resting, that means there are spellcasters with them. Ensure that they are not getting the rest they need. Disrupt meditation and prayer times for priests if the religion is known by sending in small teams to attack and retreat.

2. The players usually like to set up very defensible positions with one way into the chamber. That chamber is now their tomb as enemies will bring down the walls and ceilings of the corridor to trap them, particularly if the PC's have demonstrated considerable power.

3. Try to lure the PC's into an open area where they can be ambushed by large groups of enemies.

4. The enemies are aware of the bottleneck effect (particularly in tactical combat). Make the PC's the attacking enemy and set up a series of blockades along any corridors the PC's are likely to cross through.

 

[the Jester]

Funny, I just dealt with this.

The pcs are entering a Drow city that is under attack. They encounter a compound taken over by escaped slaves, exchange a few ranged attacks and retreat, not wanting to fight them. Then they look for a safe nook or cranny to hide in that doesn't require them to go into any of the buildings, while in the midst of an open road in a city of Drow under attack by undead.

Yeah, they didn't finish their short rest before they were attacked all over again.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

2. The players usually like to set up very defensible positions with one way into the chamber. That chamber is now their tomb as enemies will bring down the walls and ceilings of the corridor to trap them, particularly if the PC's have demonstrated considerable power.

Heh heh heh.

Quite frequently, our current 3.5Ed group looks for that kind of locale for 2 reasons. First, as you say, it's defensible.

Secondly, if the foes are smart, they'll try to find us and entomb us...which is just fine, since we're prepared to get out of exactly that situation. And not only can we get out of that situation, we can make it look as if we didn't. This means they generally stop looking for us, or at least, stop looking for us there.

Which, of course, makes it a perfect base of operations behind enemy lines.

 

[Gryph]

Heh heh heh.

Quite frequently, our current 3.5Ed group looks for that kind of locale for 2 reasons. First, as you say, it's defensible.

Secondly, if the foes are smart, they'll try to find us and entomb us...which is just fine, since we're prepared to get out of exactly that situation. And not only can we get out of that situation, we can make it look as if we didn't. This means they generally stop looking for us, or at least, stop looking for us there.

Which, of course, makes it a perfect base of operations behind enemy lines.

Oh passwall how I miss you.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

And Dimension Door and Rock to Mud and the ability to Earthglide, and, and, and...

 

[Gryph]

And Dimension Door and Rock to Mud and the ability to Earthglide, and, and, and...

Giving you more XP at this point would just be gilding the lily. So instead I offer a heartfelt, "well played, sir, well played."

 

[Mercurius]

Don't blame the players, blame the rules and designers. In my mind, this is a fundamental flaw in the "fire-and-forget" approach; 4E didn't fix this, in some sense it made it worse by adding non-spellcasters to the mix.

I'd rather see some sort of fatigue mechanism so that a PC can continue to use dailies and encounters (or their equivalent) but that there's a greater and greater chance of becoming fatigued and then exhausted and then unconscious. Or something like that.

Now 4E, as a gamist edition of D&D, doesn't as much assume that a PC uses a power and then forgets it, as it is a kind of tactical maneuver that the player uses, sort of like playing a Draw Four in Uno.

In some sense 4E clarified D&D as a gamist first, simulationist second RPG, so that we no longer have to rationalize having hundreds of HP or fire-and-forget spells and powers. But the downside is that it didn't heal the split between the game and the narrative; sure, it is nice to get your encounter powers back and be able to heal up after a combat, but it essentially turned a one encounter day to 2-3 encounters...maybe that's enough?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

IMO 2-3 encounters per day is enough; it's hard coming up with excuses to have more than that per day.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Don't blame the players, blame the rules and designers.

It's a nice theory, and I won't say that Vancian magic doesn't make it easier to fall into that kind of play, but that's what it is: a style of play.

I can honestly tell you I have never seen the 15 Minute Workday in 34 years in the hobby. Others on this site say likewise.

And still others on these boards have testified they see it in games without Vancian casting, based on the party's depletion of other resources. Like ammo for their machine guns.

 

[Wolfwood2]

I think a lot of the issue is, how many life-or-death struggles is a group of people going to get into in a single day?

The 15 minute work day isn't as much of a problem in exploration-based games because the assumption isn't that, "If we keep going on, we _will_ get into another fight, no question." That assumption is what makes groups want to turtle up and stop doing anything more in the game day. If it's like, "Well, we've been in a few fights, now let's look around. Maybe a 20% chance something will attack us but it probably won't," then I think groups are much more likely to keep going.

Of course if you're raiding a drow city or trying to destroy a goblin encampment then that doesn't apply. But if you're undertaking a mission like that, planning for how much heat you can reasonably take and how you're going to escape is just part of the mission.