Let's Speculate - Arcane Power

[Holy Bovine]

Bur warlocks aren't locked in (apart from the at wills). They can choose any powers they want and some get bonuses based on pact, mostly encounter powers.

Right - a Star Pact warlock is always going to take the power (usually encounter or daily) that gives him the star pact bonus. Same for Infernal and Fey too. You just don't take anything else. While this is somewhat true of other classes too it seems extremely pronounced int he Warlock's case.

 

[Rechan]

Right - a Star Pact warlock is always going to take the power (usually encounter or daily) that gives him the star pact bonus. Same for Infernal and Fey too. You just don't take anything else.

Speak for yourself. I have. Especially when the other options are nicer than your pact one. Or they're more thematically appropriate (with a little fluff adjustment). Or you're an Infernal warlock who wants to do something more than just Fire. Or a new pact comes out and you nab a power from it.

In many cases the boost you get from your pact is just so fiddly that it's not that much of an incentive to grab that power. For instance, Fiery Bolt. Adjacent enemies to your initial target take 1d6+Con damage. If you're Infernal and you take the power, it does 1d6+Con+Int. That's not that great of an extra benefit. Not enough, imho, for me to feel like I have no other choice but to get it. Same with Otherwind Stride; the benefit is that instead of teleporting 5, you teleport 5+Int. That's not a benefit so significant it makes it a no-brainer. Same with Mire of the Mind; the pact boon is a bonus to stealth for the encounter.

In fact, there's specific rods for Warlocks that grant you the pact-benefit of a power, even if you don't have that pact. (I.e. you're a feylock with a starlock power, the rod grants you the starlock pact benefit for that power).

And, dailies do not grant pact benefits. So you really do have the choice of dailies.

The only thing that feels restraining, IMHO, is that the powers' primary attacks are different ability scores. A Feylock's primary is Charisma, an Infernal is Con, a Starlock can go Con or Cha. So the Infernal Warlock has only to choose from the Infernal and Con-based Starpact powers, etc, because it is unlikely his Cha is going to be big enough to make the non-Con attack powers a viable choice.

 

[Xris Robin]

Dark Pact dailies DO grant pact benefits, actually. In fact, I think almost every single Dark power has a benefit. So, I'd like some more for each pact, too. There's usually 2 powers per pact, except maybe Star (Thanks to Dragon). And Con Warlocks just plain need help.

 

[Rechan]

There's usually 2 powers per pact, except maybe Star (Thanks to Dragon).

As far as the PHB is concerned, there's always 4 encounter powers per level. So two pacts get only 1, by the numbers. Dragon did help Star out some tho.

And Con Warlocks just plain need help.

I do agree with this statement.

In fact, I feel that there should be at least one more Con-based class.

 

[Nymrohd]

Starlocks do indeed need help. They need a Cha based at-will, Con based powers for each level and a Con based Paragon Path. I very much hope Arcane Power covers that.

 

[Xris Robin]

Do you think it would be broken to houserule it to work like the PHB2 classes? With only a single primary stat and two secondaries? Make it Int based, with either Con or Cha as secondary, I was thinking. (That would certainly boost Tieflings as Infernal Warlocks...)

 

[Rechan]

Do you think it would be broken to houserule it to work like the PHB2 classes? With only a single primary stat and two secondaries? Make it Int based, with either Con or Cha as secondary, I was thinking. (That would certainly boost Tieflings as Infernal Warlocks...)

In all honesty, I think that the Warlock should be Cha based. The power of their personality and will being able to cajole their Patrons to give them power, to hold sway over their victims. Warlocks are often cultist leaders, etc etc.

But I do like the feeling of a Con-based class. Especially that the Infernal warlock, being con-based, is a real beast of Temp HP. (That, and various +2 Con races make interestin warlocks; Warforged, Dwarves...)

 

[Xris Robin]

Hm. Cha-based would work too, since Tieflings would still be able to get a 18 in their primary. Most classes have a race or two with the perfect stat boosts, and that Tieflings oddly lack at being Infernalocks bugs me to no end. They're obviously the perfect Warlock race (what with being created by an Infernal Pact), yet they either have to buy an 18 or take a feat to measure up at their... err, legacy build.

Come to think of it, I don't think there is a single other Con based class. How sad. (Also sad, for me, is that Dwarves are the only Wis/Con race. Even from the MM.)

 

[Kobold Avenger]

Hm. Cha-based would work too, since Tieflings would still be able to get a 18 in their primary. Most classes have a race or two with the perfect stat boosts, and that Tieflings oddly lack at being Infernalocks bugs me to no end. They're obviously the perfect Warlock race (what with being created by an Infernal Pact), yet they either have to buy an 18 or take a feat to measure up at their... err, legacy build.

A Con bonus never made sense for Tieflings, and I felt they just should have had all Warlocks be Cha-based. Save the con-based class for something else. Though with the rules as is, Fey and Star pacts are also good for Tieflings, especially when you consider that many Tieflings would want to pursue those pacts as a way of going past their own natures.

 

[WalterKovacs]

A Con bonus never made sense for Tieflings, and I felt they just should have had all Warlocks be Cha-based. Save the con-based class for something else. Though with the rules as is, Fey and Star pacts are also good for Tieflings, especially when you consider that many Tieflings would want to pursue those pacts as a way of going past their own natures.

If they were to do a warlock today, it would likely be charisma primary with int/con as secondaries (or con primary with int/cha as secondaries). The idea of the con based warlock does make sense, in the "heavy cost of magic" sense, where you need to be tough to withstand the forces nearly beyond your control, etc. That is an approach that could really get explored more, with perhaps some future power source (shadow or elemental) being able to do a bit more with it.