Short answer: I usually count 4.
About 50% of the time we have 5 players, 25% it's 4 players, and 25% it's 6.
So I guess it's 5 players most of the time - but I usually will count it as 4 players when building encounters.
D&D 4E Let's Talk About 4E On Its Own Terms [+]
About 50% of the time we have 5 players, 25% it's 4 players, and 25% it's 6.
So I guess it's 5 players most of the time - but I usually will count it as 4 players when building encounters.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
I seem to remember it being a lvl 1 item but it has been a while. Anyway it's certainly in the range for a low level party. Honestly I think my group rarely planted it past mid-heroic much. I seem to remember making a ruling at some point they could just carry it in front of them.
Oh, I remember, it transformed into an artifact, Battle Standard of the Invincible Army! Inspired by the myth of the Spear of Destiny, carried before any host they become invincible (basically if you command an army you can win a battle). It was pretty 'out there'.
Until they get a Dimensional Knife or can cast Feywild Bole, that is.
AbdulAlhazred
Legend
Aaaannnnndddddd why does everyone think that such things exist? lol. Good luck finding one. Even if you do, you still need the time to use Exodus Knife. Solace Bole is a bit more powerful, but you have to have time to cast it (not much, but some). Even then, you burn an hour.
Why wouldn't they exist? I made use of both when I played 4e. Certainly, you're allowed to not allow them in your game if you don't like them, but if I'm discussing 4e, I can't predict what rules element a given DM might object to. Upthread, someone mentioned Themes, and I didn't hear any "why do people think Themes would be allowed" comments.
Wofano Wotanto
Hero
Already addressed that. Your players want to play hidey-hole tricks with an exodus knife, let them. Their rivals and enemies wind up getting a big jump on them while they're loafing and they face more problems the next day. And make sure they find out about it, even going to the lengths of flat out telling the players directly. It's a lot like the way 13th Age lets you escape a combat automatically if you want, but at teh cost of a "campaign defeat" forwarding the enemies' plans.
And that's if you're nice about it. Seen plenty of campaigns where there were ways to detect a hidey-hole so the baddies could camp or trap the exit point, and others where there were ways (rituals or items usually) to breach them and attack you while you were resting. Don't particularly love those approaches since they devalue the tricks involved (which do have legit reasons to exist beyond cheating the honest work day), but if the PCs have access to them too it does open up room for interesting stories. If the recurring baddies have been escaping via knife or bole repeatedly, having the PCs get access to a way to counter that will be very satisfying - but it goes both ways.
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
A low number of players can make 4e really swingy - which would account for some encounters consistently being a major struggle. Sounds like you are fine there.
After that it’s really about efficiencies, players need to become more efficient at offense/defense/control and/or the dm needs to have enemies actively spread out their attacks instead of focus firing.
Some pointers here -
1. player focus fire increases effectiveness by eliminating an enemy faster meaning less team enemy attacks.
2. Hoarding daily powers and action points is not a good plan. I’ve seen a lot of players have a tendency toward this. Ideally their best use case is on round 1 or 2 after you’ve been buffed or a target debuffed. Many players only pull out the strong stuff when the encounter looks dire - which is very inefficient.
3. Defenders improve defensive efficiency a lot against most solos with a few minions. They also can increase efficiency if the dm disproportionately targets them as many instinctively do, as they tend toward higher ac and more healing surges. Their defensive effectiveness contributions outside that seem fairly minor for most builds - but their damage output isn’t usually that far off from most strikers (twin strike and frost cheese not withstanding)
4. Make sure players are staying up with the magic item treadmill. Being a couple of bonuses down can make a huge impact. Speaking of, 4e is designed toward players having significant input into what magic items they can acquire. If this isn’t being allowed, it may lead to a much more difficult game.
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Wofano Wotanto
Hero
Target selection in general is very important. You generally need to prioritize eliminating the most damage you can in any given time period, which sometimes means spreading attacks out to eliminate glass cannon targets (often minions or artillery) rather than killing the biggest sack of hp the party can manage.
You also want to look for situations where you'll get the most out of a given daily or even AP to make your overall work day as efficient as you can. Dropping an enemy that might have gotten another attack is usually great, but if saving that resource lets you drop two enemies in a later encounter you didn't get the most out of it. Often a guessing game as to whether now is the right time to unload - which leads to that hoarding behavior. If the party as a whole can coordinate their daily usage you'll be stronger as a whole, with something big to pull out in every encounter.
Well, unless you're all playing essentials classes with few or no dailies.
Depending on the build many defenders can double as quite versatile controllers, at least in the positional sense. Pretty much any build that lets a class perform strongly in a secondary role is worth considering, especially when the whole party coordinates in that regard.
Yeah, keep those wish lists up to date and grant at least some of the requests - or something that does a similar job even better if such a thing exists. The math's too tight in 4e to shaft players with junk items or no items at all unless you modify your encounter difficulty to reflect that.
The TL;DR here would be that a party should be coordinating their builds and tactics to play off one another, not working in isolation. 4e is built on group synergies, for better or worse.
They tend to focus fire - unless they get swarmed and feel they have no choice. Of course, the Wizard focuses on minions if that's an option.
That makes sense. I hope they don't hoard Dailies as much as they gain more Daily powers.
When the Defender is there, I take turns targeting her and other characters - so she can do cool Interrupts.
I did a recent audit of magic items, and I will be doing it each time they level up. However, none of them put in the work outside the game to create magic item wishlists - so I will use my best judgement. (Actually, I've never had a group - regardless of their experience or investment - create a magic item wishlist. They just won't do it.)
Wofano Wotanto
Hero
Wow, that is so opposite from my experiences. Some folks put more effort into it than others but I never had anyone completely skip on wish lists, especially after the first Vault book came out.
Different strokes, I guess.
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