D&D 4E Let's Talk About 4E On Its Own Terms [+]

[FrogReaver]

Several months ago, I started running 4e for a group of players who largely entered the hobby with 5e. So my perspective is much fresher than it was from my previous 4e game (5+ years ago).
I haven't had the chance to read through this thread, but I'll just put in a few quick notes before I can elaborate:

• I love the online tools and character builder I found through the Discord.

Can you direct me to this tool. One big reason to not play 4e is due to character building without a tool being awful.

 

[Retreater]

Can you direct me to this tool. One big reason to not play 4e is due to character building without a tool being awful.

I found it on the 4E Discord. I'm a little leery about posting the direct link - and besides, there was a lot of helpful information about how to install the software.
I'd recommend getting on the Discord.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Several months ago, I started running 4e for a group of players who largely entered the hobby with 5e. So my perspective is much fresher than it was from my previous 4e game (5+ years ago).
I haven't had the chance to read through this thread, but I'll just put in a few quick notes before I can elaborate:

• I love the online tools and character builder I found through the Discord.
• Encounter building works. My players told me it's the first system we've played where the challenges are thrilling and fair.
• I don't like feeling it's necessary to plug the character sheets into a program and print new sheets every level. I wish I wasn't so dependent on technology.
• The organization of the power cards is essential for this group.
• Some players have a hard time wrapping their heads around how powers work. ("Why can't these just be spells?")
• Can't really go "Nova" if things go bad. Healing is largely limited as Encounter (not Daily) resources. You can't really go "all in."
• Magic items aren't especially cool.
• Combats aren't as long as some complain they are (granted, we're 3rd level, but we have 6 players).
• Wish more of it was POD (esp Madness at Gardmore Abbey - though maybe I can reconstruct a boxed set myself with a Deck of Many Things)
• We just wrapped up a fantastic dungeon crawl I wrote. The first time a player actually felt compared to map on graph paper - and everyone was on the edge of their seats to see how it fit together. Literally as exciting as any combat encounter.
• I wish there was a "re-roll" use for an Action Point. I have a player who notoriously never connects with Encounter or Daily Powers.

I always thought allowing use of an AP for a reroll would be fine. There are already ways some builds can get rerolls now and then.

 

[FrogReaver]

I found it on the 4E Discord. I'm a little leery about posting the direct link - and besides, there was a lot of helpful information about how to install the software.
I'd recommend getting on the Discord.

Thanks!

 

[Tigris]

Thanks!

Not sure if you found the discord or not, but one other simple way is to email scrivener of doom:

Several months ago, I started running 4e for a group of players who largely entered the hobby with 5e. So my perspective is much fresher than it was from my previous 4e game (5+ years ago).
I haven't had the chance to read through this thread, but I'll just put in a few quick notes before I can elaborate:

• I love the online tools and character builder I found through the Discord.
• Encounter building works. My players told me it's the first system we've played where the challenges are thrilling and fair.
• I don't like feeling it's necessary to plug the character sheets into a program and print new sheets every level. I wish I wasn't so dependent on technology.
• The organization of the power cards is essential for this group.
• Some players have a hard time wrapping their heads around how powers work. ("Why can't these just be spells?")
• Can't really go "Nova" if things go bad. Healing is largely limited as Encounter (not Daily) resources. You can't really go "all in."
• Magic items aren't especially cool.
• Combats aren't as long as some complain they are (granted, we're 3rd level, but we have 6 players).
• Wish more of it was POD (esp Madness at Gardmore Abbey - though maybe I can reconstruct a boxed set myself with a Deck of Many Things)
• We just wrapped up a fantastic dungeon crawl I wrote. The first time a player actually felt compelled to map on graph paper - and everyone was on the edge of their seats to see how it fit together. Literally as exciting as any combat encounter.
• I wish there was a "re-roll" use for an Action Point. I have a player who notoriously never connects with Encounter or Daily Powers.

About "cant go nova": Arent action points (+ dailies) for that? If you use an action point you get 1 more attack (and from level 11 on even a big bonus). This is literally the action surge from 5 fighter.

If your healer does not want to heal, would they maybe be ok with playing a Skald Bard? Skald Bards have passive an aura where everyone can heal themselves if needed.

Also adding a reroll for an action point should be fine.

About the magic items: Why dont you like them? I mean most magic items have daily or encounter powers. What would you expect as cool items? (Or do the player only want the ones with +hit / + defense?)

Do your players use character themes? Because that might be an easy option to give them a bit more "power" (there are several ones which have minor action attacks to burst/nova, or ones with pets to take part of the damage the group takes).

 

[Dustin Cooper]

• I wish there was a "re-roll" use for an Action Point. I have a player who notoriously never connects with Encounter or Daily Powers.

The first 4e games I played allowed this as a house rule. It didn't break anything. I'd say go for it if that's something you think would benefit your group.

 

[Retreater]

About "cant go nova": Arent action points (+ dailies) for that? If you use an action point you get 1 more attack (and from level 11 on even a big bonus). This is literally the action surge from 5 fighter.

It's not as "nova" as my group is accustomed to. Largely, most resources in 4e are based around an Encounter (not Daily - like it is in every other edition of D&D). So they're not used to that division and how to pace their characters in a fight.

If your healer does not want to heal, would they maybe be ok with playing a Skald Bard? Skald Bards have passive an aura where everyone can heal themselves if needed.

If we're talking about the ardent - they don't mind healing. They only want to heal themselves.
I think they're not used to the teamwork play necessary to really take full advantage of their abilities. They are enjoying the game, however.

 

[darkbard]

It's not as "nova" as my group is accustomed to. Largely, most resources in 4e are based around an Encounter (not Daily - like it is in every other edition of D&D). So they're not used to that division and how to pace their characters in a fight.

If we're talking about the ardent - they don't mind healing. They only want to heal themselves.
I think they're not used to the teamwork play necessary to really take full advantage of their abilities. They are enjoying the game, however.

It sounds like a lot of the problems you're running into are your group's idiosyncrasies rather than system issues.

 

[SteveC]

I am a huge 4E fan, so there were a couple of resources discussed here that I really appreciate. My biggest thought about 4E is "What could have been." I remember talking with Paizo about whether or not they would do modules for 4E. They told me "We would love to." I just wonder how things would have been different if things had stayed the same with Paizo and, if I get a second wish, that it just would have used the OGL.

 

[Retreater]

It sounds like a lot of the problems you're running into are your group's idiosyncrasies rather than system issues.

Certainly. I've run 4E for other groups where these issues haven't arisen.
I do think the system is 90% a great fit for our group - the rest of it I can try to adjust with house rules or just be okay with it not being a "perfect" game (which isn't really possible anyway).