D&D General Let's Talk About How to "Fix" D&D

[Reynard]

Several campaigns have moved away from Illusion of Choice portrayed in games like Storm Kings Thunder, Or Hoard of the Dragon. While some like Descent unfortunately propagate it.

Choice within agreed parameters is not the same as Illusion or Choice where nothing the players do matters. Beginning with the premise that the characters want to tackle a particular disaster, or find out why demons are roaming the underdark, or work out why IWD is undergoing nuclear winter is not railroading when it is agreed in advance. Any more than a writer setting their campaign in their homebrew setting is railroading characters because it isn’t a Wild West setting.

Tomb of Annihilation, Rime of the Frost Maiden, Curse of Strahd, Out of the Abyss, DotMM, Dragon Heist. All allow for wildly different journeys and outcomes. It’s a bit frustrating to hear you refer to products inaccurately or lump them in one box. I get that they are not your cup to tea so you don’t read them. Perhaps don’t dismiss them so lightly then. I have no issue with people choosing to play other styles: story-now, or total home brewed sandbox. Campaigns with a plot are not better or worse, they’re just a different flavor of spaghetti sauce.

Your claim that these adventures aren’t complex or involve choice is ill informed. Buy smooth or not. It’s your choice, just don’t make unfounded statements about chunky.

I am currently running Rime of the Frostmaiden and I have said in this very thread that it is a good open world adventure hampered by the milestone leveling problem. We talked about it for like 5 pages of replies. So please don't put words in my mouth.

 

[TheSword]

I am currently running Rime of the Frostmaiden and I have said in this very thread that it is a good open world adventure hampered by the milestone leveling problem. We talked about it for like 5 pages of replies. So please don't put words in my mouth.

And, yes, WotC has done really well with "illusion of choice" style adventures since 5e came out.

Then don’t imply WOC relies on an Illusion of a choice in its 5e adventures.

You’ve also implied they aren’t complex, or have meaningful choice.

 

[R_J_K75]

But did you build an RPG around it?

Nah we were too lazy, too much beer to drink.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Nah we were too lazy, too much beer to drink.

We found in those cases we couldn't even play--so tended not to mix the two.

 

[R_J_K75]

We found in those cases we couldn't even play--so tended not to mix the two.

Last time we played, everyone brought either their own 12 pack or bottle. Everyone made their saving throw and got out alive.

 

[fearsomepirate]

Nah we were too lazy, too much beer to drink.

After my last physical, it's Topo Chico for me.

 

[R_J_K75]

After my last physical, it's Topo Chico for me.

That's too bad, hope its nothing to serious. Let me tell you I had a few over the weekend and I still feel like I got beat up, so probably aren't missing much.

 

[fearsomepirate]

That's too bad, hope its nothing to serious. Let me tell you I had a few over the weekend and I still feel like I got beat up, so probably aren't missing much.

Just the usual middle-age problems. Blood pressure and weight need to come down, exercise and vegetable intake need to go up.

 

[Reynard]

Then don’t imply WOC relies on an Illusion of a choice in its 5e adventures.

You’ve also implied they aren’t complex, or have meaningful choice.

Most of them do rely on illusion of choice because most of them have a plot that has to go off in order for the adventure to be successful. I don't know why you are taking offense to a statement of fact.

As to complexity, some are more complex than others. Deagon Heist, for example, is a mess of an adventure that doesn't really fulfill the promise on the tin. But on the upside it turns out to be a really good toolkit for an adventure of one's own design, or just a way to turn Waterdeep into a urban sandbox. As an adventure it is a failure, to its benefit.

I played through OotA but don't own it so I can't say how much the choices in the adventure mattered. Hoard of the Dragon Queen is a literal railroad, and Avernus is more like a subway system: there are different tracks but they are each their own railroad.

 

[R_J_K75]

Just the usual middle-age problems. Blood pressure and weight need to come down, exercise and vegetable intake need to go up.

I know the feeling, the older I get the more stuff keeps breaking.