Level 6 smackdown

[Doug McCrae]

Human evoker 6

Feats: Empower Spell, Sudden Maximise (CA), Enervate Spell (LM), Arcane Thesis - fireball (PHB2), Metamagic School Focus - evocation (CM)

Round 1: Maximised empowered enervated fireball. 48+8d6 = 76
Round 2: Empowered enervated fireball. 8d6*2 = 56
Round 3: Empowered enervated fireball. 8d6*2 = 56

Does this work? My reading is that Arcane Thesis and Metamagic School Focus together reduce the level increase for Empower Spell and Enervate Spell to zero, minus one level for each. The damage is 8d6 rather than 6d6 as Arcane Thesis increases the caster level for fireball by two.

CA - Complete Arcane
LM - Libris Mortis
CM - Complete Mage

 

[Nifft]

So, you allow negative levels from metamagic...

What, no flaws?

Two flaws would buy you two more feats! Quicken Spell and Energy Substitution (Sonic), and then drop Sudden Maximize for Energy Substitution (Acid).

Each time you apply an Energy Sub feat, you lower the spell's level by -2, so you can Quicken a doubly-substituted spell for free, or Quicken a singly-substituted spell for +1 level (which you can fix with an application of Enervate).

Next feat, we take Energy Admixture.

Round 1: Quickened (+3) Empowered (+0) Acid (-2) Enervated (-1) Fireball (level 3 spell slot), and then a regular Empowered (+0) Sonic (-2) Enervated (-1) Fireball (level 0 spell slot).
Round 2: See above.
Round 3: See above.

SEE BELOW!

Cheers, -- N

 

[Diirk]

Meta magic school focus only works 3 times a day, you seem to be using it 6 times in your example there. Also, altho it doesn't specifically state it as most feats of a similair nature do, I'd be leery of it allowing you to reduce a meta magic cost below 1.

(Note: by the raw it also doesn't say anything about reducing below 0 ... metamagic school focus stilled fireball for a 2nd level slot !)

 

[Nifft]

Ooo, didn't recall that limitation for school focus.

At any rate, IMHO Quicken is better than Empower, and Empower is better than Maximize. Make sure you can Quicken 3/day if at all possible.

Cheers, -- N

 

[green slime]

So, you allow negative levels from metamagic...

What, no flaws?

Two flaws would buy you two more feats! Quicken Spell and Energy Substitution (Sonic), and then drop Sudden Maximize for Energy Substitution (Acid).

Each time you apply an Energy Sub feat, you lower the spell's level by -2, so you can Quicken a doubly-substituted spell for free, or Quicken a singly-substituted spell for +1 level (which you can fix with an application of Enervate).

Next feat, we take Energy Admixture.

- - -

Round 1: Quickened (+3) Empowered (+0) Acid (-2) Enervated (-1) Fireball (level 3 spell slot), and then a regular Empowered (+0) Sonic (-2) Enervated (-1) Fireball (level 0 spell slot).
Round 2: See above.
Round 3: See above.

Cheers, -- N

Sorry, I'm not following this at all.
What is allowing you to lower the spell's level by 2? I thought Energy Substitution didn't change the spell level?
Please explain.

 

[Sejs]

Sorry, I'm not following this at all.
What is allowing you to lower the spell's level by 2? I thought Energy Substitution didn't change the spell level?
Please explain.

A particular reading of Arcane Thesis says that if you apply it to a +0 spell level metamatic, it then adjusts the net spell level by -1.

It's frankly rather ridiculous and leads to .. problems.

 

[green slime]

A particular reading of Arcane Thesis says that if you apply it to a +0 spell level metamatic, it then adjusts the net spell level by -1.

It's frankly rather ridiculous and leads to .. problems.

Yeah, I can see that! But how is Nifft achieving -2?!?

BTW: Thanks for the info.

 

[Nifft]

Yeah, I can see that! But how is Nifft achieving -2?!?

Probably misreading Metamagic School Focus. I took the effect from the original post's context, which seems to be flawed.

(But I frankly agree. IF you allow negative level adjustment via metamagic + arcane thesis, very silly things are possible. The usual poster child for this abuse is Sanctum Spell, but Energy Substitution is also abusable.)

How does Megamagic School Focus actually work? I'll amend my original post in light of this.

Thanks, -- N

 

[werk]

How does Megamagic School Focus actually work?

It's in Complete Mage, but I don't have it with me atm.

 

[Nifft]

It's in Complete Mage, but I don't have it with me atm.

Got it. 3/day, reduce the cost of a metamagic by one.

So, it's pretty much worthless IMHO. Better to get another Energy Sub feat (and chain them for -1 level each time).

6th level feats (for an Elf racial sub generalist with 2 flaws):
1/ Quicken Spell, [Scribe Scroll] -- 2 Flaws: Empower Spell, Energy Sub (Electricity)
3/ Energy Sub (Cold)
5/ Energy Sub (Sonic)
6/ Arcane Thesis (Fireball)

Round 1: Quickened (+3) Cold (-1) Electric (-1) Sonic (-1) Fireball / 3rd level slot; Empowered (+1) Cold (-1) Electric (-1) Sonic (-1) Fireball / 1st level slot
Round 2: Repeat.
Round 3: Repeat.

Of course, at 7th level you get a few 4th level spell slots, which you promptly fill with Quickened Empowered triple-Substituted fireballs...

(And this is why we do not allow negative metamagic spell level adjustment...)

Cheers, -- N