D&D 5E Level vs CR

[Skyscraper]

Hi,

I'm starting to read the PHB and the MM that I just bought. I've found Mearl's Legends and Lore article on building encounters with level-appropraite beasts.

Can a correllation be made between a PC or NPC with a level, and its CR? Say I build a level 5 or a level 10 NPC based on the PHB rules, what will its CR be?

And, what if I build a party of level X NPCs, what will its CR be?

Please do not reply that "PC rules are for players, while monsters are different" or whatnot. I know. I just wish to try to establish this correllation. Thanks.

 

[drjones]

Until the DMG is released of the DM rules updated we have no idea if they correlate well.

I think you would be best off taking one of the humanoid monsters in the DMG and reskinning it or altering it minorly to make your new monster instead of statting up a PC and trying to make it be a monster.

 

[trentonjoe]

Hi,

I'm starting to read the PHB and the MM that I just bought. I've found Mearl's Legends and Lore article on building encounters with level-appropraite beasts.

Can a correllation be made between a PC or NPC with a level, and its CR? Say I build a level 5 or a level 10 NPC based on the PHB rules, what will its CR be?

And, what if I build a party of level X NPCs, what will its CR be?

Please do not reply that "PC rules are for players, while monsters are different" or whatnot. I know. I just wish to try to establish this correllation. Thanks.

I use the NPC's in the MM as a base. I think the 5th level cleric in there is a CR2. Now, it isn't a GREAT 5th level cleric so if you start making optimal choices with feats and spells, I would bump him up to a 3.

 

[Skyscraper]

Yes, I've just gone to the exercise of trying to correlate the MM creatures, and they're all over the place:

Mage: 9 HD, CR 6
Gladiator: 15 HD, CR 5
Knight: 8 HD, CR 3
etc...

Also, I realize that the XP budget table provided by Mearls in his July 7 2014 article, doesn't appear to be valid anymore. A hard encounter at level 5 is supposed to be composed of 600 XPs worth of monsters. However, a single level 5 monster is worth 1800 in the MM.

The Is there an updated table available somewhere? Or does everyone simply wing it? (I wouldn't mind the latter to be the answer mind you.)

 

[drjones]

Check out the DM basic rules here:
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules?x=dnd/basicrules

It might be the same as the LL article, but it is all the advice we have.

Oh and you want to multiply the XP by party members. A CR5 monster is supposed to be handle-able by 4 level 5 characters.

 

[trentonjoe]

Yes, I've just gone to the exercise of trying to correlate the MM creatures, and they're all over the place:

Mage: 9 HD, CR 6
Gladiator: 15 HD, CR 5
Knight: 8 HD, CR 3
etc...

Also, I realize that the XP budget table provided by Mearls in his July 7 2014 article, doesn't appear to be valid anymore. A hard encounter at level 5 is supposed to be composed of 600 XPs worth of monsters. However, a single level 5 monster is worth 1800 in the MM.

The Is there an updated table available somewhere? Or does everyone simply wing it? (I wouldn't mind the latter to be the answer mind you.)

The CR is really based on how much damage you can do. I am sure there is a formula somewher that links CR and max damage output.

If your using mostly lower level mosters (CR5 and less) it's easy to get a feel. I don't play higher level games so I don't know how to do those easily.

The REAL EASY (and rather inaccurate) way is:

CR 1- MAx damage 10
CR 2- Max damage 20 (think Ogre)
CR 3- Max damage around 20-30

 

[Tormyr]

Unfortunately, that information is not coming out until the DMG.

I put together a CR progression of the various wizards available in the MM, starter set and HotDQ. There are only about half a dozen, and fewer if you take out the ones that have significant magic items that will skew their CR. I am not putting it up here because it would be enough information to recreate the NPCs without the MM. If you put them in a table with CR going 1 to 20 and write out the NPCs' #of hit dice, spellcaster level, and ability scores, you can then fill the blanks in with either averages or slowly increases numbers for the CRs that do not have an NPC. You can then choose a CR and see what the appropriate wizard stats would be.

This kind of setup, while it will not take long for the various NPC classes. Depending on which books you have access to, you can create these charts for fighters, rogues, druids, clerics, etc. One of the NPCs in HotDQ is even an eldritch knight. While it will take a little time to set up, it will make things a lot easier while waiting until December for the DMG.

 

[Tormyr]

Yes, I've just gone to the exercise of trying to correlate the MM creatures, and they're all over the place:

Mage: 9 HD, CR 6
Gladiator: 15 HD, CR 5
Knight: 8 HD, CR 3
etc...

Also, I realize that the XP budget table provided by Mearls in his July 7 2014 article, doesn't appear to be valid anymore. A hard encounter at level 5 is supposed to be composed of 600 XPs worth of monsters. However, a single level 5 monster is worth 1800 in the MM.

The Is there an updated table available somewhere? Or does everyone simply wing it? (I wouldn't mind the latter to be the answer mind you.)

The updated encounter building guidelines are available in the Basic DMG.

 

[Skyscraper]

The Basic DMG is not in the Basic Rules, is it? It's in the starter set? (Which I don't have).

Can you then simply tell me if the numbers in the Building Adventures article by Mearls are still valid, more or less?

 

[Tormyr]

The Basic DMG is not in the Basic Rules, is it? It's in the starter set? (Which I don't have).

Can you then simply tell me if the numbers in the Building Adventures article by Mearls are still valid, more or less?

The basic DMG/MM is now on the site along with the basic PHB.
http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/features/basicrules

The encounter building guidelines (both the levels and the multipliers) are a bit different.