Kaodi
Legend
So, to get down to it, I was thinking it would be interesting to try and see what monsters could conceivably diminish their own level adjustments to +0 by advancing in racial HD. Obviously, this would not work for all creatues, either because they do not possess enough racial advancement potential to balance their abilities, or because their racial HD might be equal or superior to some class HD (like the Outsider and Dragon).
In fact, I went through the SRD, and after eliminating creatures that would require more than 20 HD, or were not sufficiently humanoid to be easily judged, or were from a very different environment, I think it basically came down to the much-maligned Satyr as the only candidate (though I haven't spent so very much time on this yet).
So, I made these stat blocks to compare an elite Satyr with 5 and 10 HD to a human rogue with 7, 10 and 12 HD. I guess the first question would be, " Do you think that the 10 HD Elite Satyr should have a LA? " and the second question would be, " If the answer to the first question is no, what is the minimum HD Elite Satyr that should have no LA? " I suppose there might be a third question if you answered yes to the first, " Should the 10 HD Average Satyr have a LA? "
( And as a note, I would be perfectly happy to continue this thread beyond the Satyr if there is actually any interest. I do not have the most wonderful record when it comes to starting lively threads. )
Elite Base Satyr (ECL 7?)
Size/Type: Medium Fey
Hit Dice: 5d6+10 (32 HP)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft
Armour Class: 17 (+3 Dex, +4 Natural), Touch 13, Flatfooted 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+2
Attack: Headbutt +2 Melee (1d6)
Full Attack: Headbutt +2 Melee (1d6) and Dagger -3 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Pipes
Special Qualities: DR 5/Cold Iron, Low-Light Vision
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +4
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 15
Skills: Max in 9.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility
Human Rogue 7
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid
Hit Dice: 7d6+7 (37 HP)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft
Armour Class: 13 (+3 Dex), Touch 13, Flatfooted 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+5
Attack: Dagger +8 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Full Attack: Dagger +8 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +4d6
Special Qualities: Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense +2, Uncanny Dodge
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +1
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 13
Skills: Max in 11.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse
Elite 10 HD Satyr (ECL 12?)
Size/Type: Medium Fey
Hit Dice: 10d6+20 (62 HP)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft
Armour Class: 18 (+4 Dex, +4 Natural), Touch 14, Flatfooted 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+5
Attack: Headbutt +9 Melee (1d6)
Full Attack: Headbutt +9 Melee (1d6) and Dagger +4 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Pipes
Special Qualities: DR 5/Cold Iron, Low-Light Vision
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +11, Will +7
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 15
Skills: Max in 9.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Spring Attack
Human Rogue 10
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid
Hit Dice: 10d6+10 (52 HP)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft
Armour Class: 13 (+3 Dex), Touch 13, Flatfooted 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+7
Attack: Dagger +10 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Full Attack: Dagger +10/+5 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +5d6
Special Qualities: Trapfinding, Improved Evasion, Trap Sense +3, Improved Uncanny Dodge
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +10, Will +2
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 13
Skills: Max in 11.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Spring Attack
Human Rogue 12
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid
Hit Dice: 12d6+12 (62 HP)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft
Armour Class: 14 (+4 Dex), Touch 14, Flatfooted 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+9
Attack: Dagger +13 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Full Attack: Dagger +13/+8 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +6d6
Special Qualities: Trapfinding, Improved Evasion, Trap Sense +4, Improved Uncanny Dodge
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +1
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 13
Skills: Max in 11.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise
In fact, I went through the SRD, and after eliminating creatures that would require more than 20 HD, or were not sufficiently humanoid to be easily judged, or were from a very different environment, I think it basically came down to the much-maligned Satyr as the only candidate (though I haven't spent so very much time on this yet).
So, I made these stat blocks to compare an elite Satyr with 5 and 10 HD to a human rogue with 7, 10 and 12 HD. I guess the first question would be, " Do you think that the 10 HD Elite Satyr should have a LA? " and the second question would be, " If the answer to the first question is no, what is the minimum HD Elite Satyr that should have no LA? " I suppose there might be a third question if you answered yes to the first, " Should the 10 HD Average Satyr have a LA? "
( And as a note, I would be perfectly happy to continue this thread beyond the Satyr if there is actually any interest. I do not have the most wonderful record when it comes to starting lively threads. )
Elite Base Satyr (ECL 7?)
Size/Type: Medium Fey
Hit Dice: 5d6+10 (32 HP)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 40 ft
Armour Class: 17 (+3 Dex, +4 Natural), Touch 13, Flatfooted 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+2
Attack: Headbutt +2 Melee (1d6)
Full Attack: Headbutt +2 Melee (1d6) and Dagger -3 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Pipes
Special Qualities: DR 5/Cold Iron, Low-Light Vision
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +4
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 15
Skills: Max in 9.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility
Human Rogue 7
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid
Hit Dice: 7d6+7 (37 HP)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft
Armour Class: 13 (+3 Dex), Touch 13, Flatfooted 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+5
Attack: Dagger +8 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Full Attack: Dagger +8 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +4d6
Special Qualities: Trapfinding, Evasion, Trap Sense +2, Uncanny Dodge
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +1
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 13
Skills: Max in 11.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse
Elite 10 HD Satyr (ECL 12?)
Size/Type: Medium Fey
Hit Dice: 10d6+20 (62 HP)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft
Armour Class: 18 (+4 Dex, +4 Natural), Touch 14, Flatfooted 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+5
Attack: Headbutt +9 Melee (1d6)
Full Attack: Headbutt +9 Melee (1d6) and Dagger +4 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Pipes
Special Qualities: DR 5/Cold Iron, Low-Light Vision
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +11, Will +7
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 10, Cha 15
Skills: Max in 9.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Spring Attack
Human Rogue 10
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid
Hit Dice: 10d6+10 (52 HP)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30 ft
Armour Class: 13 (+3 Dex), Touch 13, Flatfooted 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +7/+7
Attack: Dagger +10 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Full Attack: Dagger +10/+5 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +5d6
Special Qualities: Trapfinding, Improved Evasion, Trap Sense +3, Improved Uncanny Dodge
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +10, Will +2
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 13
Skills: Max in 11.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Spring Attack
Human Rogue 12
Size/Type: Medium Humanoid
Hit Dice: 12d6+12 (62 HP)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft
Armour Class: 14 (+4 Dex), Touch 14, Flatfooted 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+9
Attack: Dagger +13 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Full Attack: Dagger +13/+8 Melee (1d4/19-20)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Sneak Attack +6d6
Special Qualities: Trapfinding, Improved Evasion, Trap Sense +4, Improved Uncanny Dodge
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +1
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 8, Cha 13
Skills: Max in 11.
Feats: Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Finesse, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise
