Unearthed Arcana Light, Dark, Underdark - November's Unearthed Arcana

Interesting stuff.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

That's for initial set up. However, if the players decide to go off script and go somewhere where there's a tougher monster right away, being impartial means that you don't suddenly change everything to cater to what they do.

well I agree if PC do something stupid (like say power running through 3-4 levels ) then boom it happens. However the book suggest that you place stairs far apart forcing your PCs to level up.

And I'm here to tell you, from 1e all the way up to 2e, from the DMG, to supplements (like Creative Campaigning) to articles, it was considered the norm to be an impartial DM.

being impartial is not synonyms with what you are saying... I can totally place my encounter in any direction the PCs go (old 2e dragon magazine suggestion.)

So if you never saw that and you played 2e, then you much have had a very limited exposure.

well I ran 2e for 4 years, and I played for about 5.

I can't speak for advice for 3e or 4e because I don't play those versions.

I ran 3e, 3.5, 4e, 4e+essentials, other D20 games (star gate, and Mutants&masterminds) and now 5e.

If those versions flipped this advice on its head and instead advised that the DM should always change encounters, regardless of what the PCs do, to be beatable by the PCs, then I'd consider that horrible advice.

I think that both have there place. (again way back in 2e I had a Dragon mag that suggested I build an encounter, then no matter what direction the PCs go...boom that's were the encounter is)

I said it before, and I'll say it again. To play a game where I know that I can beat every encounter I'd ever meet would make an incredibly boring game to me. Takes all the risk out of it. Takes all the unknowns out of it.

well I think your taking what people are saying out of order. I think (and maybe I'm wrong) what we do is make encounters that CAN be won by the PCs, but not WILL ALWAYS be won.

example: I have a Death Knight with a +12 to hit that throws 15-40hp of damage. I will never throw that at PCs with 11-15 ACs and 25 or less HP... I just wont. You go looking you wont find him, you go to his house, he's not home. On the other hand 8ish levels later he is fully an OK encounter (all be it tough)...

I also don't seed 'hey these kobolds are sacking these caravans' at 15th level.

A victory handed to you is no victory at all.

I agree. However a loss handed to you is no loss it's just dumb.

BTW, what boxed set was it?

It's 2E "Intro to AD&D" boxed set. It included mini-versions of the PHB, DMG, and MM along with a CD, a couple of adventures, plastic mini's and dice. Kind of like an old Basic Set.

Never does it actually say the words "Forgotten Realms" but it has a temple of Lathander in it and takes place in the small town of Freedale, it has castle Daggerdale, and the local wizard is named Netheril. I'm not sure what they where trying to accomplish, but they took pieces of the Realms and dropped them into the game.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I owned that. It was the First Quest 2e box set, and I can agree that it did assume expanding challenges matched PC advancement. I've always run more or less like that (with some unique deviations) because I opt for the PCs are the protagonists, not merely tourists.

I used the 1st dungeon (and the orb the wizard wanted) as a set up for a 4e game a few years ago, I had to mod the lay out just a bit, but the players ended up taking it on as there base in the area.

 

[Mistwell]

I will say Impartiality is a complete farce, no person has ever been truly impartial ever. No matter what there is an internal opinion when confronted with a situation.

I wonder if you see the flaw in this position. If nobody can be impartial, then when you make a judgement that nobody can be impartial, it's a judgement made with a bias towards finding nobody can be impartial.

 

[DEFCON 1]

Again - choke point. Can't do that. Only thing they can do to the guy is attack him from one direction - hence "tunnel fight". We seem to be talking about different situations.

I understand the whole choke point thing...I just find the scenario of a dozen goblins all running up a narrow corridor one at a time, attacking, then running back while the next one runs up-- all supposedly in six seconds-- ridiculous. Granted, the rules allow for it should a person choose to have the monsters behave that way... there's nothing you're doing "wrong" per se... but I myself would never run it like that because I just think it's a dumb gaming of the rules. But hey... what does it matter if I don't like it? It's not like my opinion affects your game one way or another. You can keep on keeping on, as will I.

 

[Orlax]

I wonder if you see the flaw in this position. If nobody can be impartial, then when you make a judgement that nobody can be impartial, it's a judgement made with a bias towards finding nobody can be impartial.

It isn't a flaw in the position, it is an inherent fact of the position and thus ironic as heck, but that doesn't make the position flawed.

 

[Greg K]

I've never run a game like that, nor have I read advice to.

Example: I am prepping a new world (my group is in the mid to high teens now so time for a new world), I have a starting place, and some adventure stuff... none of it is more then a match for my PCs, I have hints about some far off evil, and an anctiant lich, but nothing MY pcs do will bring them into conflict with even 1 beholder, until they level up a bit.

3e called it Status Quo encounters and the idea had been around long before 3e

 

[Greg K]

I can't speak for advice for 3e or 4e because I don't play those versions.

3.0 had it. It was called Status Quo encounters. There was a section in the DMG on Tailored vs Status Quo encounters

 

[Mistwell]

I understand the whole choke point thing...I just find the scenario of a dozen goblins all running up a narrow corridor one at a time, attacking, then running back while the next one runs up-- all supposedly in six seconds-- ridiculous. Granted, the rules allow for it should a person choose to have the monsters behave that way... there's nothing you're doing "wrong" per se... but I myself would never run it like that because I just think it's a dumb gaming of the rules. But hey... what does it matter if I don't like it? It's not like my opinion affects your game one way or another. You can keep on keeping on, as will I.

Well realistically more than one goblin would be running through a 5 foot area and it all really takes place essentially simultaneously in the 6 seconds so really it's just a huge swarm piling in at once, perhaps even on top at each other as the horde swarms, and attacking and then getting spooked to back off by the ferocity of the defender. But that is dealt with in order by the rules to adjudicate it with some order.

 

[Mouseferatu]

This is, I think, an innate problem--or, for those who don't see it as problematic, let's go with innate quirk--of any initiative-based system. We see things happening in sequence in the game, that's how we're going to envision them, even though in the combat that the game is struggling to emulate, a lot of it is actually happening simultaneously. The goblins aren't charging one by one (hurrah, hurrah); they're coming in a swarming horde, or at least three to five at a time.

Whether that makes the scenario less stupid in a given player's eyes is going to vary on both player and circumstance. I think there are times it can come across as stupid, but it's not innately so. But everyone's going to draw their own lines. It's just a price we pay for the system.

 

[Azurewraith]

Oh my i went to sleep and created a monster! IM not saying players shouldn't die they should crit happens etc but if a pc drops to 0 im not going to double tap him on the floor to force death its not fun for the pcs and well it would make it incredibly easy to kill any pc i wanted at any time.

As for the topic of living worlds and level one dragons im sure it would be common knowledge in the local village that a dragon lived in the nearby mountains hell he has probably been demanding tribute for 200something years so if the pcs asked it would come up if they didnt ask on the way up i would mention strange patches of charred earth, littered with bones(wouldn't want to cook those sheep near ones horde may melt the lootz) and the giant 10inch deep claw marks gouged in the stone if they didn't head this warning id then narrate the giant red dragon flying around 100ft overhead descend into a section of the mountain failure to heed that not so subtle thar be dragons here i would have the dragon demand they strip but naked and leave all their possessions on the ground as he was feeling kind FAILING that(dam these are some dam stoopid pcs) i would have the dragon gobble them all up tpk next game(thats the rule round these parts in my group there are 3of us that DM so its tpk and out if one guys survives new chars it is lets try and figure out why they decided to tag along).

I mean lets face it the death of a PC is not fun for anyone it butchers story continuity oh your on some epic quest to save the world from an arch lich awsome i just happen to be a 13th level wizard oh i know right ye theres only like 10of us in the world but im here in sleepy Fallcrest just chilling or even worse why is said wizard sat fully equipped in a dungeon or it ends up being well sorry lol timmy ill call you when the other guys hit a plausible point to let you in the party maybe 6months from now. It can bring a grown man to tears when his 19th level character hes been playing for the last year dies that has become like his best friend.

Again im not saying you should make it so pcs are invulnerable im a strong believer in dice fall where they may but as a DM its simple to kill a pc even if you throw what the DMG calls a medium encounter at them just set an ambush focus fire one guy in the suprise round with arrows then proceed to double tap him when down then move on to the next guy and the next guy, they try to escape mwuahahah you run into big burt the giant come down from his cave to see what the fuss is.