limiting buff durations

[S'mon]

A player suggested I post the following rule change of mine to see the reaction.

I've decided to reduce the duration of the following spells on Ea from 1 hour/level to 10 minutes/level.

Spell Durations:
The Duration of the following Buff spells is reduced from 1 hour/level to 10 minutes/level:

Bull’s Strength, Cat’s Grace, Endurance, Greater Magic Fang, Greater Magic Weapon, Magic Vestment, Mage Armour, any other ones I missed.

Rationale: I've always thought these 'buff' spells were overpowered when compared to permanent magical items, but what tipped me over the edge was a player's comment that Tarkane (high level NPC) would routinely buff himself with Bull's Strength etc even when there was no obvious threat, since there's no reason not to do so. Routine spell-buffing like that doesn't fit with my world Ea, and I prefer to change the rules to fit the world rather than vice-versa. A 10 minute/level duration actually favours the attacker (usually PCs) who can plan their attack over the NPCs, who are usually caught unprepared. Also this means that eg a +4 sword is actually worth something to a 15th level character.

 

[DreamChaser]

sounds fine to me.

DC

 

[kreynolds]

Rationale: I've always thought these 'buff' spells were overpowered when compared to permanent magical items, but what tipped me over the edge was a player's comment that Tarkane (high level NPC) would routinely buff himself with Bull's Strength etc even when there was no obvious threat, since there's no reason not to do so. Routine spell-buffing like that doesn't fit with my world Ea, and I prefer to change the rules to fit the world rather than vice-versa.

Well, either you have a problem with him casting the same spell over and over, or you have a problem with him casting this particular spell over and over. Why is this a problem? Shouldn't he be allowed to use the full extent of his class abilities? By limiting the spell, you limit his resources. I could understand you wanting to do so if it was for balance reason, like heal and harm or something, but this sounds different. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're having a problem with him having access to useful magic that is worth casting. The buff spells are nice to have around, they're about as useful as most other spells, beneficial to have going on yourself.

To better understand your position, how is it that Bull's Strength (ex) doesn't fit into you homebrew world?

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: limiting buff durations

Well, either you have a problem with him casting the same spell over and over, or you have a problem with him casting this particular spell over and over. Why is this a problem? Shouldn't he be allowed to use the full extent of his class abilities? By limiting the spell, you limit his resources. I could understand you wanting to do so if it was for balance reason, like heal and harm or something, but this sounds different. I could be wrong, but it sounds like you're having a problem with him having access to useful magic that is worth casting. The buff spells are nice to have around, they're about as useful as most other spells, beneficial to have going on yourself.

To better understand your position, how is it that Bull's Strength (ex) doesn't fit into you homebrew world?

Hi Kreynolds.

To explain - Tarkane is the 'evil' Overking of Imarr, a high-level Fighter with lots of Cleric & Wizard support, who the PCs are attempting to assassinate. Currently the PCs are at the planning stage. Logically, as Peter, a player, pointed out (wow - lots of p's), given the standard duration of the buff spells, Tarkane and his henchmen would all be fully buffed up all the time. This doesn't fit with the established magic level on Ea, my campaign world (which was created in 1986 under 1e rules and has been developed through various D&D & non-D&D rulesets) - and it would incidentally make killing Tarkane pretty much impossible IMO, although the players might not agree.
Also, I find having to roll all those d4+1s a pain...

Hence the reduction in duration.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

hello, I'm the player in question - I wanted to see what the rules junkies would make of this...

I'm reserving judgement on how it affects us for several weeks, because although PC's can pick and choose fights sometimes, more often they're the ones of the end of the ambush/attack in the night/etc. So it's useful in the short term (we're having to hope that drafting in a planetar is going to help us!), but long term it may not be quite so nice...

 

[Anubis]

Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

Hi Kreynolds.

To explain - Tarkane is the 'evil' Overking of Imarr, a high-level Fighter with lots of Cleric & Wizard support, who the PCs are attempting to assassinate. Currently the PCs are at the planning stage. Logically, as Peter, a player, pointed out (wow - lots of p's), given the standard duration of the buff spells, Tarkane and his henchmen would all be fully buffed up all the time. This doesn't fit with the established magic level on Ea, my campaign world (which was created in 1986 under 1e rules and has been developed through various D&D & non-D&D rulesets) - and it would incidentally make killing Tarkane pretty much impossible IMO, although the players might not agree.
Also, I find having to roll all those d4+1s a pain...

Hence the reduction in duration.

Those long-duration buff spells aren't THAT powerful. Plus, if this guy is at any high level at all, he should already have a Belt of Giant Strength that makes Bull's Strength useless, seeing as the bonuses do not stack. I think this is a needless compensation here.

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

Those long-duration buff spells aren't THAT powerful. Plus, if this guy is at any high level at all, he should already have a Belt of Giant Strength that makes Bull's Strength useless, seeing as the bonuses do not stack. I think this is a needless compensation here.

Anubis - Ea has a lower magic level than standard 3e, not all high level fighters have belts of giant strength. Likewise +5 swords & armour/shield (although the standard DMG Fighter has only a +4 sword at 20th) et al.

Edit: also, at higher levels you start getting Empowered & Maximized versions of the regular stat buffs, making gauntlets of ogre power (etc) pretty useless.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

Logically, as Peter, a player, pointed out (wow - lots of p's), given the standard duration of the buff spells, Tarkane and his henchmen would all be fully buffed up all the time.

Hey S'mon,

How many henchmen does Tarkane have? How many of these henchmen are spellcasters, and are they buffed up as well? The reason I ask is simple...spellcasters generally don't waste spells if they don't have to, and if the spell you want them to cast isn't needed right now, its a waste.

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

Anubis - Ea has a lower magic level than standard 3e...

Apparently not in a traditional sense. If it was low magic, wouldn't the spellcasters be able to cast fewer spells per day, thus limiting how many buff spells they could cast?

 

[S'mon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

Hey S'mon,

How many henchmen does Tarkane have? How many of these henchmen are spellcasters, and are they buffed up as well? The reason I ask is simple...spellcasters generally don't waste spells if they don't have to, and if the spell you want them to cast isn't needed right now, its a waste.

He has lots of henchmen (being emperor of 8 million people). Whether they're buffed or not is the point of the discussion.