limiting buff durations

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

S'mon said:
He has lots of henchmen (being emperor of 8 million people). Whether they're buffed or not is the point of the discussion.

Let's try this again. ;) What is the average encounter that the PCs might run into? You know, something like 12 soldiers and 4 spellcasters. What are the numbers, or just give me an example, along with the level of the spellcasters.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

kreynolds said:


Apparently not in a traditional sense. If it was low magic, wouldn't the spellcasters be able to cast fewer spells per day, thus limiting how many buff spells they could cast?

Don't tempt me. :)

It's lower-magic than standard 3e in that there are fewer spellcasters per head of population (only about 0.2% of population), they are mostly of lower level, and some spells are restricted, like the above. There are also less magic items around. There are less nonhuman monsters, also, but it was basically a standard 1e AD&D gameworld in origin.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

kreynolds said:


Let's try this again. ;) What is the average encounter that the PCs might run into? You know, something like 12 soldiers and 4 spellcasters. What are the numbers, or just give me an example, along with the level of the spellcasters.

Well, the PCS are around 11th level (range 9-13). A typical encounter might be 8 Fighters (knights), a Wizard, and a Cleric, of around 7th-9th level. I don't want to say too much as one of my players is reading this!
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

S'mon said:
Don't tempt me. :)

:D

S'mon said:
It's lower-magic than standard 3e in that there are fewer spellcasters per head of population (only about 0.2% of population)...

Actually, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting isn't much higher. Only .5% of the population actually practice the Art. The other .5% are just dabblers.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

S'mon said:
Well, the PCS are around 11th level (range 9-13). A typical encounter might be 8 Fighters (knights), a Wizard, and a Cleric, of around 7th-9th level. I don't want to say too much as one of my players is reading this!

Well, with a 9th level cleric and a 9th level wizard, there are plenty enough bull's strength spells to cast upon your 8 fighters. However, note that doing so would deplete all 2nd level spells for the day from both of them, except for their bonus spells, which won't be many (shouldn't be more than 1 bonus 2nd level spell each, possibly one more if the cleric can get bull's strength as his domain spell). So, while they certainly can buff up the whole regiment, just keep in mind that if they are encountered, they will have no 2nd level spells left, or at best, 1 each (possibly 3 in total).
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

kreynolds said:


:D



Actually, the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting isn't much higher. Only .5% of the population actually practice the Art. The other .5% are just dabblers.

Well, that .2% is everyone with any spellcasting levels. Of it about 25% are Clerics, 10 % Sorcerer, 15% Wizard, 50% Adept or other. Of those 50% are 1st level, 25% 2nd, 12.5% 3rd, etc, ie few high-levellers.
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

S'mon said:
Well, that .2% is everyone with any spellcasting levels. Of it about 25% are Clerics, 10 % Sorcerer, 15% Wizard, 50% Adept or other. Of those 50% are 1st level, 25% 2nd, 12.5% 3rd, etc, ie few high-levellers.

Even still, assuming a population of say, 9 billion, its only a difference of about 12 million people (30 in the FRCS, 18 in yours, assuming pop of 9 billion). That's not that much of a difference. I think you're game might be just-a-tad-teeny-tiny-bit-low-magic, but its not traditional low magic.

By the way, I'm not trying to be difficult here. Just trying to get a feel for your campaign.
 
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

S'mon said:


Well, that .2% is everyone with any spellcasting levels. Of it about 25% are Clerics, 10 % Sorcerer, 15% Wizard, 50% Adept or other. Of those 50% are 1st level, 25% 2nd, 12.5% 3rd, etc, ie few high-levellers.

Okay, so given your empire of 8,000,000 people, let's see how that breaks down:

16,000 total spellcasters.

4,000 Clerics
1,600 Sorcerers
2,400 Wizards
8,000 Adepts or other

Now. You're an evil overlord on the go. How much of your time do you want taken up by people casting buff spells on you? Answer: Not a lot. You need someone who can cast an 8 hour buff spell. That means an 8th level caster. How does that work out?

Of the Clerics:

2,000 1st level
1,000 2nd level
500 3rd level
250 4th level
125 5th level
66 6th level
33 7th level
16 8th level

So, in your country of 8,000,000 people, there are 16 clerics who can cast (un-Empowered) buffs that last for a full shift. You could do a little better if your clerics regularly take the Extend Spell metamagic. But how many of those 16 Clerics are people that you trust to cast spells on you every day? Of the ones that you trust, are you sure their best use is to stick around you every day so that they can buff you?

There are a lot fewer Sorcerers and Wizards. Twice as many Adepts, but they're arguably less reliable.

Now, suppose that your evil overlord does get buffed up in every stat, full time every day. Okay, so he's got, on average, +3.5 to every attribute. That really spells the difference between possibility and impossibility for your PC's plans? +2 to hit and damage, +2 to AC (if his armor doesn't preclude the bonus anyhow) and +30 to 40 hitpoints is unconquerable?
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

Mike Sullivan said:

Now, suppose that your evil overlord does get buffed up in every stat, full time every day. Okay, so he's got, on average, +3.5 to every attribute. That really spells the difference between possibility and impossibility for your PC's plans? +2 to hit and damage, +2 to AC (if his armor doesn't preclude the bonus anyhow) and +30 to 40 hitpoints is unconquerable?

+ Vestment on sword & shield, GMW on sword, etc...
And he was a lot tougher than them to start with. :)
 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: limiting buff durations

kreynolds said:


Even still, assuming a population of say, 9 billion, its only a difference of about 12 million people (30 in the FRCS, 18 in yours, assuming pop of 9 billion). That's not that much of a difference. I think you're game might be just-a-tad-teeny-tiny-bit-low-magic, but its not traditional low magic.

By the way, I'm not trying to be difficult here. Just trying to get a feel for your campaign.

I agree - I often call it 'lowish magic' or 'low magic by 3e standards'. By 1e standards it's perfectly normal magic, - on the high side really. I was just reading some pieces by Gygax ca 1977 about how D&D is ruined if the DM lets the players buy any magic items, ever. Including potions.
 

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