Loki! (spoiler thread)

[Staffan]

The Asgardian gods are supposed to be that strong. The Asgardian commoners are a bit stronger on average than humans.

Over on Agents of SHIELD, we see an Asgardian commoner casually catch a knife blade with his bare hand and bend the knife, and then easily break out of handcuffs. In another episode, we see Lorelei casually punch a dude so he goes flying several meters, and Sif kick a pretty big mobile home across a parking lot in order to provide cover. I don't know where Lorelei and Sif rank on the Asgardian power level scale, but I'm pretty sure they're nowhere near the top.

And in Avengers, Loki doesn't really have any trouble kicking America's ass until Iron Man shows up. And I'm pretty sure Captain America is supposed to be a significantly better fighter than TVA no-names and random train guards.

 

[Stalker0]

In Avengers he casually beats captain America in physical fight. He seems to be far stronger.

And goes toe to toe with thor at the end of the movie, at least for a bit.

 

[Umbran]

Hela drew her power from Asgard. Maybe that's true to a small extent for all Asgardians, and the loss of their homeworld did diminish them.

So, the real explanation is simpler: The MCU is not a consistent simulation of an objective world/universe.

For the entire history of comics, the power and abilities of characters varies from author to author, from one time to another, and from one story to another. Broadly, character power levels are not fit to a consistent objective standard, but to fit the type of story being told at the time. Trying to compare between the high-power action of the Avengers movie, and the grittier take of the Loki series, is folly.

 

[MarkB]

So, the real explanation is simpler: The MCU is not a consistent simulation of an objective world/universe.

I wasn't trying to provide the real-world explanation. It's always fun to try and come up with an in-universe explanation for such things, even when the real explanation is obviously an oversight or careless writing.

There's even a tradition of it in the comics' letters pages, with fans encouraged to come up with in-universe explanations for mistakes or inconsistencies in return for the valuable reward of a no-prize.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

So, the real explanation is simpler: The MCU is not a consistent simulation of an objective world/universe.

For the entire history of comics, the power and abilities of characters varies from author to author, from one time to another, and from one story to another. Broadly, character power levels are not fit to a consistent objective standard, but to fit the type of story being told at the time. Trying to compare between the high-power action of the Avengers movie, and the grittier take of the Loki series, is folly.

True. Still, I feel it improves the immersion to the fictional world if it is consistent. Sure, it is common for superheroes/magical beings/etc to have their powers work in the way the plot currently demands, but I don't think that's a good thing.

 

[Umbran]

There's even a tradition of it in the comics' letters pages, with fans encouraged to come up with in-universe explanations for mistakes or inconsistencies in return for the valuable reward of a no-prize.

I'm aware. But No-Prizes are usually for discrete and specific continuity errors, not for general "he seems less strong" complaints.

And, if you want a no-prize, it helps to not make your answer something that would have impact outside the comic in question. For example, invoking the loss of Asgard has the implication that every Asgardian will have lost strength for that reason - and we'd have to ask why Thor wasn't a weakling when he went after Thanos with Stormbreaker?

A better no-prize answer is probably that TVA Agents are enhanced up to, say, base Asgardian levels.

 

[Umbran]

Sure, it is common for superheroes/magical beings/etc to have their powers work in the way the plot currently demands, but I don't think that's a good thing.

I think it is a wonderful thing, because it allows characters to be used in more kinds of stories.

"Strong guy," isn't even a major line in Loki's portfolio, like it is for Hulk or Thor. His physical strength is not central to how he deals with the world, because however strong he is compared to humans, he's not strong compared to the people he grew up with - Asgardians.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I think it is a wonderful thing, because it allows characters to be used in more kinds of stories.

I'm sure different people feel differently about this. But to me such inconsistencies draw the attention to the artificiality of all it and lessen my immersion. Can the hero do the thing? Depends on how it is easiest to write the story. And sure, it is ultimately all made up, but keeping things consistent helps to pretend it is real and makes the perils feel more real. It allows us to pretend the success is due the skills, power and cunning of the hero and forget it is actually due the whims of the writer.

In more realistic real world setting we automatically know a lot of things. We know that humans can be threatened by guns and that they cannot stop a speeding car by bare hands. But this may not be the case in more fantastic setting, so these things actually need to be established in order the storytelling to work.

"Strong guy," isn't even a major line in Loki's portfolio, like it is for Hulk or Thor. His physical strength is not central to how he deals with the world, because however strong he is compared to humans, he's not strong compared to the people he grew up with - Asgardians.

Yes, and that's why it is actually interesting that he has that capability.

 

[Umbran]

I'm sure different people feel differently about this. But to me such inconsistencies draw the attention to the artificiality of all it and lessen my immersion. Can the hero do the thing? Depends on how it is easiest to write the story.

So, right here you show a misunderstanding. This isn't about what is "easier", as if the writer is lazy. It is about what is better for the story. If Loki could just bull through the TVA by main strength alone, it would have been a short series, and ultimately not about Loki, as a person.

And sure, it is ultimately all made up, but keeping things consistent helps to pretend it is real and makes the perils feel more real.

So, I think of comic books and comic book moves as modern mythology, for which consistency of objective details is not an expectation.

 

[Stalker0]

"Strong guy," isn't even a major line in Loki's portfolio, like it is for Hulk or Thor. His physical strength is not central to how he deals with the world, because however strong he is compared to humans, he's not strong compared to the people he grew up with - Asgardians.

And yet in the majority of Loki’s appearance in the MCU, at one point or another he has engaged in physical combat, and don pretty well.

So it is pretty jarring when he just gets his butt kicked over and over again in the series.

The TVA agents are one thing… they are literal masters of time and space I could respect that they have been enhanced or have tech thst makes them super combat capable.

To me the real inconsistency is when Loki fights a regular person controlled by Sylvie and gets his butt kicked….this is a guy that has tanked hits from captain America, a regular person shouldn’t even slow him down