Longer dying: more negative HP before death

[MarauderX]

As the PCs get into higher levels, the encounters they face start dishing out more damage. Sometimes they will take 4 blows for 50 HP each, and few of them could survive it, suddenly dropping from full HP to well below -10 in moments.

Instead, I am looking at extending the number of negative HP before dying. Each PC below zero would still be dying, loosing -1 HP per round. Instead of -10 being the limit, the PC would have a negative range equal to their positive range of HP. For example, a barbarian with 213 HP without raging would have a -213 range before dying, and a wizard with 12 HP would die at -12. Take away stabilization unless someone with a healer kit comes to help. And even then the heal check DC might be higher depending on how negative the target is, or perhaps multiple heal checks might have to be made to stop the bleeding.

This helps a number of things with the game's mechanics.

Insta-death spells like Disintegrate would be used less often. Clerics would have a chance to be healed once they are knocked down to dying. Barbarians don't suffer the chance of death when their rage ends while they are still alive and active. Spells like Deathwatch and Death Knell become more useful. Clerics would have a better chance to get to a dying character, and don't have to worry about taking blame for getting into combat a little. Coup-de-grace's would be used more often to finish off peons and other foes instead of just wading through them to get to the BBEG cleric that has mass cures.

Would it mean less PC death? Yes, of course. But it would also work the other way too. Bad guys have the ability to bounce back into a fight with a little healing. Where you dropped a foe on the battlefield becomes important again. Killing would be a much more deliberate act, and grudges would develope from someone killing another with malice or purpose.

Has anyone seen a system with something like this or tried it yourself?

 

[Phlebas]

We play a system where you can go to - con score (10 min) instead of 10 and dead which has made a difference to the fighters a few times. (We also play disabled at 0 to - con bonus)

I haven't considered going to -'ve total hp. That effectively doubles the HP for the PC's (in terms of survivability) which could make a big difference to campaign balance - and makes instant kill spells much more useful than damage inflicting ones

 

[RainOfSteel]

We play a system where you can go to - con score (10 min) instead of 10 and dead which has made a difference to the fighters a few times. (We also play disabled at 0 to - con bonus)

Since 3.0 onward, I have also always allowed the Con score to define the negative hp that can be sustained.

I haven't considered going to -'ve total hp. That effectively doubles the HP for the PC's (in terms of survivability) which could make a big difference to campaign balance - and makes instant kill spells much more useful than damage inflicting ones

I have also never considered allowing a negative hp range equal to total hp.

Sometimes they will take 4 blows for 50 HP each, and few of them could survive it, suddenly dropping from full HP to well below -10 in moments.

If the PCs are taking 50hp/enemy hit, and taking so many hits that they sustain 200hp+ quickly, shouldn't they have at least mid-range DR or higher, 10-20 DR, at the very least?

What about the Cleric using healing spells during combat?

 

[MarauderX]

If the PCs are taking 50hp/enemy hit, and taking so many hits that they sustain 200hp+ quickly, shouldn't they have at least mid-range DR or higher, 10-20 DR, at the very least?

What about the Cleric using healing spells during combat?

The magic in the my setting is rather limited. The high level PCs are currently at ~19th level with zero DR on most physical attacks. And buffing spells take time to apply; if ambushed any DR versus specific attacks is simply not there. This high level group has a druid in lieu of a high level cleric, and thusly the big healing is done mostly via the Heal spell.

Thing is, I realize I've been holding back a little on the BBEGs cause I know the party weakness in this area. Having casters and melee evil guys doing as much as they can is pretty risky business, and any given PC is either up and doing something or dead. Rarely is there an in between at this point.

Instead I am looking for a large middle ground where the PCs would have the chance to survive an onslaught of blows at the higher levels. They would be taken out of action, but not deceased. A range of just -1 through -9 is way too narrow when the damage they are taking is 50+ per shot.

The other part to this is, healing a PC is worth the effort to save them. Saving them from bad guys coup de gracing them is similar to that of saving those affected by Hold Person.

Thanks for the input so far - any more?

 

[Cheiromancer]

I would suggest negative (Con plus level) as the dying threshold. And from 0 to negative con modifier to be the area where they are disabled (can only take move actions without losing a hit point). (So a character with a 20 Con can still act at -5 hit points)

I think a threshold equal to their actual hit points is too much. But a 19th level character with a threshold of -40 or so (if Con is 21 or higher) should be OK. Death is still a possibility, but it isn't so acute as when the threshold is only -10.

 

[MarauderX]

I would suggest negative (Con plus level) as the dying threshold. And from 0 to negative con modifier to be the area where they are disabled (can only take move actions without losing a hit point). (So a character with a 20 Con can still act at -5 hit points)

I think a threshold equal to their actual hit points is too much. But a 19th level character with a threshold of -40 or so (if Con is 21 or higher) should be OK. Death is still a possibility, but it isn't so acute as when the threshold is only -10.

Cool idea with Con + Level. I wouldn't use the disabled part; Endurance & Die Hard need to have some use.

 

[Nifft]

In my game, you're dead at -(10 + HD). Thus, a 3 HD bugbear is dead at -13, and a 4th level Fighter is dead at -14. My PCs are in their teens now (~15th level) so they'd die at -25.

They're disabled at exactly 0, but they can spend an Action Point to move their HP total to 0 (from negative anything -- even something that would've killed them).

Cheers, -- N

 

[ender_wiggin]

There are two methods I've thought of that, although require a little more paperwork may be useful.

1) When the character reaches negative hit points, they must make a fortitude save every round, regardless of being unconcious or concious. If they fail, they fall unconcious if they are not (unless they have diehard or whatnot), and start losing 1 hp every round, etc. If they fail by more than 10, they die. Makes your fort save a bit more important.

2) When the character reaches -10 hp, they fall unconcious (unless they have diehard). At this point, they take direct consitution damage (considered temporary damage). In this system, a character's effectiveness is severely compromised if he gets hit beneath this level and gets healed back up b/c his con is jacked hard. Also, all death is related to consitution 0 if you don't count instant death spells.

 

[Crothian]

We also use negative Con. I also have toughness give three hit points and allow a character to goto three plus their con in negative score before dying.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

We do; constitution score plus hit dice = number of negative hit points you die at.