Savage Wombat
Hero
Sometimes I find that informing players of the meta-text for these things is the best way. "Oops, looks like the Unresolved Plot Point has overridden your control of the spell. Dum dum DUM." Grin while you say it.
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Looking for opinions on hijacking a player's spell (I DM)
- Thread starter Book of Vile Derp
- Start date
He isn't missing anything. I, too, see the benefits. But the player likely won't care. There are precious few players who accept their fate in trade of a good story. They want to win or die on their own accord and terms, not to lose the fight against the DM that wasn't supposed to exist in the first place, or you to win the battle for them. Even if the plot twist matters to her, she'll probably not like how it was introduced, and rightly so, because she's not in control of her actions, nor a superior NPC - Just the old, implacable hand of the DM.
Not interfering with a Player's decision is the one and only limitation a DM has. Ignoring it makes you a hypocrite at best. As the Dungeon Master, I control literally everything but them, every ant, every goblin, every innkeeper, every monarch and deity. The sheer amount of what we can do can be overwhelming, but in essence, we still have the easiest job at the table. And would I make it even easier by breaking the rules I was supposed to enforce? No, thank you. Nobody has enough points in Balance to walk on that slippery slope.
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Grogg of the North
Adventurer
I think we play with two very different types of groups.
When the player asks their deity for the gate spell, give her a little face time with her deity. Have the cleric learn that someone from their past has been watching her journey and will come to her aid when she calls the spell. All she needs to do is say *awesome sounding celestial word goes here*.
You get to dangle the carrot of her father coming to her aid; it still leaves the cleric the ability to gate in something else and who doesn't like to have a little deity face time?
If you're going to have her father be a trumpet archon, I'd make him special. Better gear or stats or something else to set him apart from generic MM entry trumpet archon.
If the cleric summons the other celestial can she control it per the gate spell? I assume so but I figured I'd ask anyway.
Best idea so far. I support it wholeheartedly.
S
Sunseeker
Guest
Then why not simply say "You find something else coming through the portal." or some-such. Why take away the player's control?
billd91
Not your screen monkey (he/him) 🇺🇦🇵🇸🏳️⚧️
Isn't that also taking away the player's control?
S
Sunseeker
Guest
No. The player gets what they want(the cool powerful creature) and the DM gets what they want(story resolution).
I mean heck, we don't even know if the player WANTS story resolution. They may find it perfectly interesting that they never got closure and are just fine with that. Not everyone gets closure for everything, such is life.
I think the DM really needs to discuss with their player how, when, and if they want their ctory to be resolved, be honest with the player that the DM has some ideas, maybe even discuss those ideas. It's amazing how well players respond to changes that affect them when you actually sit down and talk to them about it. The player might find the DM's original idea totally awesome! And then he'll enjoy it even better because he'll have prepared for it(as a player) and therefore RP better as his character.
DM's only need to be sneaky and create "surprises" when they know deep down their players might respond poorly. If you know your players won't react poorly, there's no need to be sneaky.
Book of Vile Derp
First Post
To answer some questions that I've seen pop up. 1) I picked Trumpet Archon, because originally the player himself had picked Trumpet Archon, and it appeared incredibly humanoid and makes sense enough to me that someone who has died could become one, especially a servant of a good deity. And on top of that, the player spent about 2 days talking about how awesome this trumpet archon he planned to summon was, and how it made sense for the character, before changing it to the Merut an Inevitable from the Lawful Neutral plane. Her deity is Chaotic Good. it makes no sense to me, and it's pretty clear that it was just to get a tiny firepower boost (a firepower boost i intend to bestow upon the TA as well so that he won't be summoning a weaker things anyway). Now to the one that said picking the slightly weaker option is role-killing her character...I agree. If she would use a CR14 creature (TA) over a CR 15(MI), she may as well just use the spell to summon a bunny. *rolls eyes*
As for the people with relevant points, yes the player and the character are deeply interested in getting the rest of the backstory into the open, because I have refused to tell him outside the game, telling him for a few sessions now, that there are still ways for it to be resolved in game. (for anyone getting confused by pronouns, male player, female character. And except for a few decisions with spells, he roleplays her well enough for us to not make fun of him, and that's quite an accomplishment). He is a unique player though, he roleplays and powergames almost equally hard. He has reasons for most things the character does, but on occasion it can be very clear that he saw an awesome spell decided he wanted it and THEN came up with a decent-at-best reason why it was still in character. [MENTION=36016]grogg[/MENTION], I really like that idea. What I gave before was kind of just an example of how I was thinking of doing it, not being set in stone yet, but while not necessarily taking your idea word for word, i can definitely see implementing part of it. I will likely have the deity say something similar while she is in prayer.
As for the people with relevant points, yes the player and the character are deeply interested in getting the rest of the backstory into the open, because I have refused to tell him outside the game, telling him for a few sessions now, that there are still ways for it to be resolved in game. (for anyone getting confused by pronouns, male player, female character. And except for a few decisions with spells, he roleplays her well enough for us to not make fun of him, and that's quite an accomplishment). He is a unique player though, he roleplays and powergames almost equally hard. He has reasons for most things the character does, but on occasion it can be very clear that he saw an awesome spell decided he wanted it and THEN came up with a decent-at-best reason why it was still in character. [MENTION=36016]grogg[/MENTION], I really like that idea. What I gave before was kind of just an example of how I was thinking of doing it, not being set in stone yet, but while not necessarily taking your idea word for word, i can definitely see implementing part of it. I will likely have the deity say something similar while she is in prayer.
Book of Vile Derp said:
A single hit point worth of difference may very well be a matter of life and death. I'd pick the stronger any day of the week should they both be willing to help.
Even so, we arrived at the same conclusion. As in, Grogg's plan is good. There is no need for hostility between the two of us(especially since I'm also one of the people with what you consider valid points, apparently). Ceasefire?
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