Looking for thoughts on this

[Nevarius]

My group and I are debating what can be an extremely powerful combo of abilities. As part of the debate we are trying to determine if Vengeful weapon will add other weapons used during the active period. We are also trying to determine what exactly qualifies as a damage roll. Below is the scenario assuming crits on all hits:

Activate Vengeful Axe: Bonus 1d10 on damage rolls.

Jaws of the Wolf: 2d12 +10 + (Veng 1d10) + (crit 3d6) =62
2d12 +9 + (Veng 1d10) + (crit 2d6) =55

Quickhit bracers (property) if you hit with both attacks you add 1d6+ (Veng 1d10) = 16

Quarry on target: 2d8 + (Veng 1d10) =26

Activate Quickhit bracers daily power (minor action): Basic melee Offhand: 1d12+9 + (Veng 1d10) + (crit 2d6) =43

Action Point: Corin allows me to take basic melee w/mainhand: 1d12+10 + (Veng 1d10) + (crit 3d6) =50

Claws of the Griffon: 2d12 +10 + (Veng 1d10) + (crit 3d6) =62
2d12+9 + (Veng 1d10) + (crit 2d6) =55

Brutal Accuracy(Elven Accuracy upgrade): 1d6+4 + (Veng 1d10) =20

Quickhit bracers (property) if you hit with both attacks you add 1d6 + (Veng 1d10) =16

Quarry second use due to feat and action point use: 2d8 + (Veng 1d10) =26

Blade of storms (paragon path ability): 4

Total possible dmg assuming solar alignment and all crits: 435


My understanding of the rules is that a damage roll is anything that requires a seperate damage roll to determine damage. In such the crit bonus could also be argued to gain an additional bonus from vengeful.

So, thoughts...

 

[PHGraves]

kill it with fire.


More serious answer - No.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Seriously, a damage roll is only once per hit. Each dice is not a separate damage roll.

If you add damage, fine, but it is not a separate damage roll.

 

[Piratecat]

Right, it doesn't work like that. The bonus 1d10 is added once per attack; if you crit, it adds +10 damage, and that's it. For instance, it isn't added separately to quarry damage.

 

[robsenworldaccount]

And so 4th edition appeared to be a simpler cleaner version of d&d. Little did the gamers know

Rules NVR DIE!

 

[Stormtalon]

It helps to think of things like the Quickhit bracer +d6 and Quarry damage simply as extra dice added to the initial roll.

Additionally, I would suspect that the Quickhit bracer property only applies when taking a 2nd attack by activating its property to gain an immediate free attack with your offhand (I'll need to look it up when I'm home, as I don't have that book/pdf/whatever with me at work).

Finally, the Vengeful +d10 property rightly should only work with damage rolls made with that weapon, so adding it to the offhand attacks is also out.

Quick scan, I'm seeing at least 6 uses of Vengful property that shouldn't exist in your example, maybe more. Also one Quickhit trigger that probably shouldn't exist (the other is being counted in the wrong place -- add it after activating the free offhand, but not after using a power that allows two attacks).

 

[DracoSuave]

Not to mention, a lot of this are bonus damage dice added onto a single damage roll. The vengeful property only adds to the initial damage roll, not on each bonus die.

But that said, time to figure out where this ACTUALLY leads:

Power (Encounter): Free Action. Use this power when an attack hits a bloodied ally within 10 squares of you. Gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls and +1d10 on damage rolls against the attacker until the end of your next turn.

Item Slot: Arms Property: When using a power, if you hit one creature with both your main weapon and your off-hand weapon, deal an extra 1d6 damage to that creature.

Alright, so here's the thing. Extra damage is -not- an extra damage roll. It's extra damage on top of the damage roll. Vengeful -will- add to all individual damage rolls tho against the creature. It doesn't care if it's the weapon used or not, or even if the damage rolls are made by an attack.

So, here's a better way to do this. Two vengeful weapons in main and offhand. The +2 to attack is a power bonus, but the +1d10 is unnamed.

Jaws of the wolf, 1d12+10+2d10+2d8, then 1d12+9+2d10+1D6.
Quickhit daily: 1d12+9+2d10
Action point + basic attack: 1d12+10+2d10
Claws of the griffon: 2d12+10+2d10+2d8+1d6+4, then 2d12+9+2d10+1d6
Blade of Storms: 4 (!!!!)

This is for a sum total of potential noncritical damage of:

8d12+12d10+4d8+1d6+55 damage, or an average damage of
[(8+12+4+1)+(94+120+48+6)]/2+55
[25+268]/2+55
[293]/2+55
146.5+55
201.5 mean damage.


All this proves is that you should keep Vengeful weapons out of the hands of characters that have multiple iterative attacks.

 

[Stormtalon]

Hehe, that's still a scary beastie -- but in your calculations, you've got 2d10 in all the attacks, not 1d10 -- why is that, exactly?

<edit> woops, nevermind, I just clued in -- twin Vengefuls. Ow ow ow, that really hurts....