TSR Lorraine Williams, unfairly lambasted?

[lowkey13]

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[Sacrosanct]

Eh ....

Palace of the Silver Princess: 1981 release, written in 1980.

Mazes and Monsters (book): 1981, after B3
Mazes and Monsters (movie): 1982
Pulling: founded BADD in 1982, didn't rise to prominence until 1983-84.
Jack Chick's first tract: 1984
60 Minutes: 1985

So no, the Satanic Panic certainly wasn't the issue. IMO, and based on my exceedingly faulty memory.

James Egbert disappeared in 1979, and William Dear (the private investigator investigating his disappearance) was all over the news saying how it was D&D that drove him to do that. And the news was more than willing to keep going with it. So the satanic panic began in 1979. When Jaffe wrote Mazes and Monsters, it was based off of Egbert's case.

 

[lowkey13]

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[Sacrosanct]

Yeah, no. It wasn't widespread until the end of 1981 - at the earliest.

And "satanic panic" wasn't the issue with B3.

The Egbert incident was all over the news. And it was widespread enough that Jaffe (and others) used it as a springboard to link D&D to satanism and/or other ritualistic things. That incident is what launched D&D from obscurity into the mainstream.

Coincidentally, Tim Kask was on an episode of Retro Report last week and mentioned how that incident is what drove up D&D sales (because it was suddenly in the limelight, so to speak.)

So yeah, by 1980, it is entirely reasonable and likely that the people in that aforementioned article (and TSR management) did not want B3 to be released with the art that it had depicting S&M ritual torture since at the time, D&D was being linked to rituals, witchcraft, and deviancy thanks to that exposure the news was doing in the Egbert case.

edit Because the height of the panic was with Pat Pulling, didn't mean that people weren't associating D&D with satanism and rituals before the Pulling incident. The Egbert case clearly was the start, and it was well known.

 

[lowkey13]

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[darjr]

And the MM and DMG were still being published, as is as far as I know, and no landfill dumps or recall. At least not then.

besides have you looked at the removed art? The first one, when I saw it many moons ago didn’t even register, and the second didn’t have anything to do with the text, it didn’t require a rewrite, and really, it wasn’t worth dumping them, inmho.

also didn’t it go out with a half naked horse lady on the inside cover? I mean cmon.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Um, except that isn't what happened. It wasn't obscure in the late 70s. It wasn't popular because of that.

And also, that wasn't "all over the news." Seriously.



Whatever. Correlation, causation, and all that. Let's see how it works:

"D&D became popular because of the 70s revival of Tolkien. And Led Zeppelin. People totally started playing D&D because they needed to get the Led out. All that glitter is gold, and my halfling thief will totes steal it ...



It might be reasonable, except THAT ISN'T WHAT HAPPENED. You can either make up reasons that the people themselves AREN'T STATING, or you can see that they have said, alterately, that it is "because of the sexy" (although that is disputed because the artists say it was par for the course) "because of the caricatures (although no one seems to know who was caricatured) or "because of the BDSM" (which is total BS).

Or perhaps you can note that one (1) early module was written by a woman, the rest of the design team in 1980 revolted, and when Gygax wouldn't hear it, did an end run around him and complained to Blume.

Hmmmm.... go figure, right?



It wasn't that well-known until Mazes & Monsters ...

It is what happened. We have the time line. We have the news reports. And we have the people directly involved saying it's what happened. We have Tim Kask saying that's what helped launch TSRs sales numbers (the Egbert incident). We have the people who actually worked on the module saying "They didn’t want anything that could be seen as or interpreted as in bad taste. They didn’t want anything that could be held up on a TV screen with someone saying, "Parents of America! Look at what your children are reading and playing!" An illustration like that was not going to fly. "

To say it didn't happen means we must ignore the timeline, ignore all of the media reports, and ignore the people who were actually there experiencing it. So yeah, they are in fact stating it themselves. Not just Heyndrx (who worked on the module), but Tim Kask as well.

 

[Sacrosanct]

But still being published, as is as far as I know, and no landfill dumps or recall. At least not then.

besides have you looked at the removed art? The first one, when I saw it many moons ago didn’t even register, and the second didn’t have anything to do with the text, it didn’t require a rewrite, and really, it wasn’t worth dumping them, inmho.

also didn’t it go out with a half naked horse lady on the inside cover? I mean cmon.

No, it's not, and never has, continued to be published. Not the original orange cover. Most people are familiar with the green cover, which has the offending images removed. It wasn't just nudity. It was the depiction of an S&M ritual torture scenario that everyone was worried about. You have to remember the context as well. This was literally only a few months after Egbert's case was all over the news, and Dear and the media were all saying how D&D led to rituals and witchcraft. Of course management didn't want that correlation and to give ammo to the critics.

 

[Parmandur]

It is what happened. We have the time line. We have the news reports. And we have the people directly involved saying it's what happened. We have Tim Kask saying that's what helped launch TSRs sales numbers (the Egbert incident). We have the people who actually worked on the module saying "They didn’t want anything that could be seen as or interpreted as in bad taste. They didn’t want anything that could be held up on a TV screen with someone saying, "Parents of America! Look at what your children are reading and playing!" An illustration like that was not going to fly. "

To say it didn't happen means we must ignore the timeline, ignore all of the media reports, and ignore the people who were actually there experiencing it. So yeah, they are in fact stating it themselves. Not just Heyndrx (who worked on the module), but Tim Kask as well.

There have been other reports of the incident beyond that Wired article that tell a very different story. At least one of the people interviewed in that Wired article, Bill Willingham, is a Cuckoo Cabana misogynist who has published literal porn, so I'll take that account with a boulder of salt.

 

[lowkey13]

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