lorraine williams

[rgard]

Then there's "T$R"'s infamous lawsuit threats with the internet. I didn't get to to net until after WotC took over, so I missed that, but I can understand how some people would be pissed.

I remember in my early days of the internet (mid-90s) somebody had uploaded all the 1st and 2nd ed D&D rules. Naughty by most standards, so I can understand the lawsuit threat if the threats were directed at those who uploaded the rules.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Vraille Darkfang]

History takes a dim view of failure.

LW was the head of the 800lb gorilla of the industry when it suffered heart failure.

Regardless of how much of the incompetence was already present when she took over. She was at the Helm when the Titanic sank.

Also, she was also very atagonisitc towards her own fans.

In short, she was driving the van while it went over the cliff, while smacking the kids in the back with a fly-swatter.

The highlights of her career are massive negatives (from a historical standpoint). Any positives are hidden in the massive shadows of 'T$R' & Bankruptcy.

D&D (and RPG's) would be very different had she not been in control (or a better manager).

 

[JohnRTroy]

I'll have a response to this thread about LW a bit later, but I did want to let you know something. D&D was not shown in E.T. because of Gary's review of the script--or the very short part they showed him. Monte Cook wonder why TSR refused D&D. I responded in his forum in the thread below, but I'll put the text here as well.

http://okayyourturn.yuku.com/topic/809/t/The-Scoop-on-why-ET-didn-t-have-D-amp-D.html

It was in my hands, and I was sent partial information, that part of the script where the kids were playing the game--only that part of the script. There was money on the table, and thus the scene might suggest gambling was involved in D&D play. When I queried the studio for more information about the film they refused to give any. Thus, as did the people at M&Ms, I declined to have the game named in the movie. Of course it was not the proper call as things turned out, but it was the only one to make considering the information given to me. D&D had suffered too many attacks in the past, and having gambling associated with its play would have been like adding gasoline on those fires.

So, Gary made the call on that decision, not the Blumes.

 

[Henry]

I remember in my early days of the internet (mid-90s) somebody had uploaded all the 1st and 2nd ed D&D rules. Naughty by most standards, so I can understand the lawsuit threat if the threats were directed at those who uploaded the rules.

Thanks,
Rich

There were cases like this, but I also recall cases of many BBS's (which were all the rage before the internet) who shut down because they were carrying fan-produced D&D modules, and alternate RPGs based on D&D mechanics, but carrying different info (or even those without any D&D mechanics, but carried terms like "hit points" and "armor"). TSR legal discovered they were running, and the BBS admins were given two choices: either cease and desist carrying all D&D "derivative" material, or port all of that material over to TSR's approved BBS site with a notice on all of it that it belonged to TSR because it was derivative material. Most of them shut down rather than cease and desist, because it was either a measure of defiance, or because without that material their reasons to exist practically vanished. I saw one do this firsthand (can't recall the name now), and a lot of sites on the internet who years later had the cease and desists as well as the shutdown "defiance" notices of the BBS'es, as sort of a "gone but not forgotten" monument.

Regarding the loss of Mythus and GDW's carrying of it -- If I recall Gary correctly, Mythus died not because TSR shut it down through a successful lawsuit, but instead they shut it down by offering to settle out of court for a substantial sum for ownership rights, which GDW accepted, and then TSR promptly buried the game, including pallets of gamebooks in its warehouses. So TSR and later WotC ended up with ownership of it, but interest 7 years later was pretty much zero.

 

[Jack99]

Many gamers have moved on.

I would guess that most gamers don't have the faintest clue who Lorraine Williams is.

When that is said, I must admit that I find it shocking that obviously intelligent adults can generate that amount of hate towards a person (they never met) because of some (really) poor business decisions back in the early 90'ies...

/shrug

 

[Spell]

As to the thread's implication that unacknowledged sexism might play a role in driving the vehemence towards this person... [cut]

i don't think that sexism has anything to do with this story. maybe one or two of the main "players" (i'm talking about game designers, executives, and so on) might be sexists, albeit, to the best of my knowledge, this is not true. but surely the vast majority of the fans that have a bitter tooth against williams couldn't care much if she was male or female.

 

[rgard]

There were cases like this, but I also recall cases of many BBS's (which were all the rage before the internet) who shut down because they were carrying fan-produced D&D modules, and alternate RPGs based on D&D mechanics, but carrying different info (or even those without any D&D mechanics, but carried terms like "hit points" and "armor"). TSR legal discovered they were running, and the BBS admins were given two choices: either cease and desist carrying all D&D "derivative" material, or port all of that material over to TSR's approved BBS site with a notice on all of it that it belonged to TSR because it was derivative material. Most of them shut down rather than cease and desist, because it was either a measure of defiance, or because without that material their reasons to exist practically vanished. I saw one do this firsthand (can't recall the name now), and a lot of sites on the internet who years later had the cease and desists as well as the shutdown "defiance" notices of the BBS'es, as sort of a "gone but not forgotten" monument.

Fair enough and I could see being extremely annoyed if I received a lawsuit threat, because of my derivative use material being on a BBS.

To be honest though, if TSR had decided to allow derivative use material, but disallowed IP being posted, how would they have policed that? They would have had to employ an army of folks looking for the IP that was posted.

Their approach was similar to ADB's (Steve Cole and the folks who made Starfleet Battles) they decided that you could post your own ship designs on-line, but that you had to agree that what you posted belonged to ADB. My interest in the game was waning at that point and the 'your stuff belongs to me' approach by ADB put the tin hat on it for me. I dropped my support ($) for that company after that declaration. Haven't purchased any of their stuff in 8 or 9 years.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[francisca]

but don't you think that all the aggro attatched to her figure is a bit too much?

She said gamers were beneath her. That's enough to earn my scorn. Actually, if she would have said any group was beneath her, that would be enough for me.

if she really was the horrible person and short sighted manager that everyone likes to spit on, how comes that LOADS of gamers were thrilled and excited about the games produced by her company?

Please elaborate on her creative contributions.

I think any success during her tenure was in spite of her, not because of her.

 

[Wolfspider]

When TSR started going after fan-sites I just chalked it up to the same forward thinking that led to them not allowing Spielberg to show the kids playing D&D in the movie E.T..

The Auld Grump

I could have sworn that the movie did depict the kids playing D&D at the beginning of the film.

 

[zacharythefirst]

Just as an aside and point of fact, Siembeda has stated he 'doesn't have time to play games' and hasn't for several years.

I know Kevin S. is busy, but he's run at the Palladium Open House the last two years and at least the last 3 conventions he's attended, to include Gen Con Indy (further back than that, I think). So that's not really true.

I didn't want to drive the thread off-tangent, but having sat in on one of his games before, he does in fact still run/play--though I'm sure not with the frequency he'd like.