LOTR from a gamer's perspective

[Numion]

The eagle thing would work, easy. Send the eagles on scouting trips regularly with orders to only retreat if chased. Now saurons troops get used to them. Then one time there's the ring with them. Nobody expects it. Boom!

(That's what they did with the first a-bombs. Flew really high over the cities during the previous weeks without dropping bombs. That got the japanese used to american bombers flying high with no danger. Then BOOM!)

Sauron was even fond of showing off his troops )), so surely he'd have no trouble with a couple of scouts hanging in the sky.

If I was an NPC the last thing I'd do, was to hire some damn adventurers for the job.

 

[Slife]

You get a fleet of eagles who will approach from a different direction while an army marches on the Gates of Mordor. We know the ring can dominate someone, and we know hobbits are more resistant to magic, so we have multiple hobbits trained in secret watching the ring bearer in case he flips out and decides to go the dark side. They all have blindfighting, or blindsense or blindsight and maxed-out grappling. Screw this sneaking around crap. Gandalf gets his own white eagle, and so does Galadriel and Elrond. They deep-six the Nazgul - I mean, c'mon, these guys got chased off by a ranger with a sword and a torch - and hold off Sauron - who never actually leaves his tower, anyway - and Frodo either throws the ring in, or gets pitched bodily by his squad of Ring Destroyers bodily into the lava.

Problem solved.

Great plan. Everyone knows how adventerous hobbits are, how common it is for them to leave their hobbit homes, and how little the amount of fuss you'd raise if a lot of them suddenly vanished. Oh, and did I mention their incredible physical stature and short time of training? Within a manner of weeks they'd surely be able to learn how to overcome the power of one of their own kind who has been infused with the strength of a dark godling.

Fleet of Eagles? There aren't nearly that many.

Meanwhile, you haven't dealt with Saruman of Many Colors (obviously an Initiate of the Seven-Colored Veil, one of the most broken powerful wizard PrCs). He moves in on his own wyvern beastie, obliterates Gandalf the Gray (your level 5 wizard with a staff of Pyrotechnics), and Elrond (who has about the same power level as Gandalf), and takes the ring for himself.

Oh, and the balrog and Moria orcs come into there somewhere as well. Along with the dragons and giants that were mentioned in the Hobbit.

 

[GwydapLlew]

I don't entirely get your point here. Even conceding that neither Gandalf or anyone else at Rivendel had any means of communication with the eagles except by physically climbing to their nests, they actually almost did it: the fellowship didn't leave Rivendel immediately after the council, but they delayed it until they sent scouts to the other side of the mountains and far south. Not to mention the time it took them to return with the information.

Individual scouts didn't have Saruman or Sauron's spies looking for them, nor did Caradhras decide to go avalanche on them. My point was that we could safely ignore the difficulty involved with finding Gwaihir and Friends because Gwaihir had just rescued Gandalf, and Gandalf could have set those wheels a-turning before arriving at Rivendell.

Who needs nine eagles? one carrying Frodo and Gandalf (just in case, with a loaded gun) would be enough. And if you spot one eagle you have spotted... an eagle. If they are flying high enough, you won't see the riders.

Except that a giant eagle is a great deal larger than a normal eagle, and I imagine that crebain (just as an example) could tell the difference. Also, the eagle would have been making the trip is several short hops, which also could attract attention.

Nope, the nazgul were, IIRC, "formless and empty" after being swept by the river flood Elrond provoked and it wasn't until much later they returned to Mordor and got their cloaks back and new mounts.

The Nazgul are always formless and empty unless they are given shape by their gear. The Fell Beasts existed prior to the Nazgul losing their horses; the only reason that they used horses to begin with were for stealth purposes. If we are going to allow the PCs shortcuts, then it's really only fair for the DM to do the same (see: The Disjunction Accords )

I can see your point; if the PCs went directly from Rivendell to Mordor via Eagle, the Nazgul may not have had time to reach Mordor and re-accoutre themselves. Even if you assume just Gwaihir and Gandalf and Frodo, though, it's not like a giant flying target with the 'Sauron is attracted to me' enhancement wouldn't draw unwanted attention. Remember, the only reason that Gorgoroth and Mount Doom were left unguarded was because of the assault by the Lords of the West upon the Black Gate.

I'm just not seeing it.

 

[Vocenoctum]

We had an interesting conversation over the weekend about LOTR if you were running it as a RPG. This is not system-based, like talking about MERP or D&D or GURPS, but rather a discussion about how fiction works differently from a RPG.

The obvious solution was to fly the ring into Mordor on the backs of giant eagles. Quicker, faster, less dangerous.

What do you think?

http://www.howitshouldhaveended.com/Divx links/LOTR.html

 

[Slife]

According to Wikipedia, the eagles were 20 feet tall with a wingspan of 75 feet. Big target.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Try reading the books. They're pretty good.

Ease up on the snippy.

 

[Someone]

Yep. Only a giant eagle big enough to carry a full-grown man and two one hobbits.

Fixed that for you...

One of a kind known to attack orcs on sight. Flying in Restricted Mordor Airspace. And the ring would certainly show up brighter (darker?) to Sauron's senses than a mere Eagle. Observe how little time it takes for Sauron to find Frodo at the end of The Fellowship of The Ring.

He "finds" Frodo because he claims the power of the ring, screaming "the ring is mine!" and wears it. In any case I wouldn't call little the time it takes a couple of hobbits to cross country the whole Mordor, taking the scenic route (Frodo and sam don't move in a straight line in the books, instead going North to Udun, then east, then south) Second, what's Sauron going to do? He had to pull the nazgul from the battle at the black gate and send them to the mount of doom when Frodo revealed himself, while he stayed in his tower. Clearly, Sauron has as much mobility as Stephen Hawkin, only that Sauron has one less finger, only one eye, and lacks a mobile chairwheel. And if they sent the ring on eagleback immediately, the nazgul would be still returning to mordor and not a threat. If you have notice of anything else that would arrive at the mount of doom in time to defend the Sammath naur (sp?) or kill a flying eagle, I'd like to know.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Not quite true. The reason that the Captains of the West marched on the Black Gate was precisely to distract Sauron's attention from the Ring moving toward Mount Doom. There is a clear implication that as the Ring draws closer, Sauron (and the Nazgul) can sense its presence. Sauron is distracted by the battle of wills through the Palantir, and his attention focused on Gondor. A straight flight to Mordor wouldn't have allowed all that to evolve.

If you have notice of anything else that would arrive at the mount of doom in time to defend the Sammath naur (sp?) or kill a flying eagle, I'd like to know.

I highly doubt that even Gwaihir would be able to pass the Black Gate and fly into Mordor without facing hordes of Winged Beasts, siege weapons, and archers. The Eagles are clearly pretty good in a fight with orcs and the like, but I doubt they could withstand a massed defense. I also think that Sauron would have all sorts of ability to mount a response if he sensed the eagle moving toward his beloved Orodruin. He certainly doesn't seem stupid. Finally, while this is never tested in the books, I have the feeling that Gandalf's presence itself would draw Sauron's attention, so Frodo would probably have to go alone.

There's also an interesting theory that appears in some of the commentary around the LotR books: Namely, that Gandalf willingly takes the road to Moria because he knows that someone will have to deal with the Balrog sooner or later. It is quite possible that if the Fellowship had not braved Moria, the Balrog would be able to be summoned by Sauron to defend Mount Doom.

 

[dcas]

The eagle would be spied long before it entered Mordor. Can it fly fast enough to get around a line of Nazgul waiting for it? Maybe.

Then what happens when Frodo claims the ring while he's flying on the eagle? Does the eagle just drop him into the cone of Mount Doom?

 

[Someone]

The Fell Beasts existed prior to the Nazgul losing their horses; the only reason that they used horses to begin with were for stealth purposes

Well, we got rid of the nazgul, now the air cavalry has to face at most some fell bests mounted by what? orcs? Gandalf killed a balrog, I suppose he can face that.

I can see your point; if the PCs went directly from Rivendell to Mordor via Eagle, the Nazgul may not have had time to reach Mordor and re-accoutre themselves. Even if you assume just Gwaihir and Gandalf and Frodo, though, it's not like a giant flying target with the 'Sauron is attracted to me' enhancement wouldn't draw unwanted attention. Remember, the only reason that Gorgoroth and Mount Doom were left unguarded was because of the assault by the Lords of the West upon the Black Gate.

I'm just not seeing it.

I see your point too, and you're right there. Still is a reson of why the air assault would have failed, not why they wouldn't have tried it; the chances of mount doom being guarded were the same if they travelled by air or if they succesfully snuck on foot without being seen or leaving any trace; remember that it took the eagles and fell beasts very little time to arrive from the black gate to mount doom, not enough IMO to send reinforcements. In that case, sending the fellowship was a suicide mission, not much better than mailing the Ring to Sauron (who could think Boromir was right?) It was only fruit of the most extraordinary luck that Sauron was idiot enough to pull all guards from mount doom and send them to the front, as if he was desperate to find troops.