LOTR from a gamer's perspective

[Vocenoctum]

Finally, the timing is off anyway. While the Nazgul may have been dispersed, Frodo was also injured and wandering into Shadow; by the time he was healed and ready to journey again, they well might have been mobile again... and right by the side of their master.

I don't recall specifically, but were all the Nazgul at the river anyway? I think it was what, five at the camp?

 

[molonel]

True, but the work was a Book and not a Game.

Um, did you even read my first post? Did you see the phrase "a discussion about how fiction works differently from a RPG."

It was writen for depth, and story and the journey, for the fellowship. The world is lowmagic..verylow, so we dont know if Telaport, or anything else exists.

I never even mentioned teleport. I mentioned eagles.

Also, if its ever a quick fix...then its stupid, and not very dangerous or dark at all.

Actually, it's often the simple solution that nobody thinks to try.

The whole problem with this is that everyone answering it is using things beyond the stories contraints, and that's what you have to deal with, or not, when runing a game based on a Book. Its a low magic world...I mean, 10000 was an army "an army with a single purpose, to destroy the world of men!" Ten thousand soldiers couldn't take half the places in Forgotten Realms...LOTR is a midleages world, that has some magic..some.

And the eagles would be flying miles above them.

I mean, one time someone asked me, "Who would win, Gandalf or Elmenster?" I laughed. Think about it, and you will too.

Sure. Start your own thread about it. I'll be there.

so please, when you arue this..remember the bubble your in, because once you leave it, the argument is meaning less. Anything could be better if you change the world, or the rules of it. If however you can comeup with a better way, which could've been done, without stretching or breaking the likelyhood then thats fine.

I did come up with a better way.

 

[molonel]

Passages in LotR regarding the power of the Nine are highly contradictory. The incident at Amon Sul is hard to reconcile with the fact that Gandalf (who appears substantially more powerful than Aragorn) could barely face the Witch-King, let alone the massed Nine.

He did kill a balrog single-handedly. I think you're selling my man Gandalf short.

You don't find the blindfighting grappling hobbits thing a bit silly?

Sillier than crawling unarmed across miles of ash in between constantly shifting armies filled with trackers and creatures with scent?

 

[Vocenoctum]

Again, Aragorn drove off the Nine with a sword and a torch. So the only real problem is Sauron, and I must say that I laughed out loud when someone compared him to Stephen Hawking, above.

They left because they had stabbed Frodo, and could wait. If Elronds power at the river wasn't enough to destroy them, Aragorns isn't either. Even the Witchking would probably (IMO) have reformed from his death on the field, if the ring hadn't been destroyed.

Also note, Gandalf didn't exactly win vs the Balrog. He just had a Ressurection on his side.

 

[molonel]

They left because they had stabbed Frodo, and could wait.

No, they were driven away by Aragorn. The movie got that right.

If Elronds power at the river wasn't enough to destroy them, Aragorns isn't either. Even the Witchking would probably (IMO) have reformed from his death on the field, if the ring hadn't been destroyed.

The river destroyed them and their mounts. Being incorporeal undead, they sought new forms.

And I think that statement about the Witch King is highly speculative.

Also note, Gandalf didn't exactly win vs the Balrog. He just had a Ressurection on his side.

If your opponent drops first, you win.

 

[Someone]

I'm not disagreeing with you there, but the point is that Aragorn and Gandalf are clearly concerned not only with the orcs occupying the Plain of Gorgoroth, but with Sauron's gaze being diverted from Mordor's interior. That suggests that at the very least, he's canny enough to detect intrusions.

Your point was that Sauron can detect the ring at a distance. He can't, or he'd have known that Aragorn didn't have it. The fact that the eagle would be spotted is irrelevant, as shown below.

Yes; "hordes" is an exaggeration. But even nine-plus would be plenty to slow down the Eagles.

Ok, we've made another advancement. We've now slowed the eagles, instead of stopped them.

Because the flying party is easy to spot. Simple. Eagles aren't recon planes; they can't fly above detection level because they need to breathe. A party that entered Mordor with Aragorn's guidance (it's pretty clear that he knows of at least one or two secret ways in) could sneak up to Orodruin without being detected... maybe.
But once more, the issue is whether the Eagles would be stopped *before* they reached Mount Doom.

First, they can't be, period: Sauron doesn't have the means. Ballistae and bows aren't SAMs, they can't hit an eagle flying high enough, and enough would be like 1000 feet. Surely youre not suggesting that at 1000 feet you'll suffering from altitude sickness. Second, it doesnt' matter if they are spotted at all, since it takes relatively very little time to fly from the black gate or whatever Sauron thinks it's Mordor air space to the Orodruin, as it's said in the books; much less in fact than it'd take Saron to figure out what the hell are they doing, send a patrol, and the patrol to arrive at the volcano Sauron didn't have a reason to guard at all.

 

[Vocenoctum]

I did come up with a better way.

The "Eagles take the ring to Doom" is a pretty old discussion. The eagles aren't exactly forgotten in the texts, they show up here and there, so it's not like their presence is ignored. The plan was simply disregarded based on a path of stealth. Why they brought a dwarf on such a mission is the real question!

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

Finally, there isn't really a route by which the Eagles could enter Mordor without, as iwatt pithily replied earlier, facing a number of catapults. Unless one wanted to cover hundreds upon hundreds of miles flying into Harad and then north over the Ephel Duath and Plain of Nurnen (in which case you'd *definitely* run into vast armies doubtless equipped with siege engines), you basically have to go right past Minas Morgul or the Black Gate.

If, OTOH, you believe that Mordor has no anti-air defenses, then I'm perfectly willing to support the idea that sticking Frodo on an eagle and sending him into Mordor would have been a smart idea.

Oh look a Strawman!

Torsion powered seige weaponry has a rather limited range, so do bows, migrating birds regularly fly at an altitude of multiple kilometers, well beyond the reach of weapons available to ground forces. At this point they only have to deal with a flying enemy, so they only need enough eagles to force the Nazguls to overextend trying to cover them all assuming the Nazgul are even ready to repel the attempt.

 

[molonel]

The "Eagles take the ring to Doom" is a pretty old discussion.

Of course it is.

The reason it annoys purists is because it's too simple, not dramatic enough and actually makes sense.

The eagles aren't exactly forgotten in the texts, they show up here and there, so it's not like their presence is ignored. The plan was simply disregarded based on a path of stealth. Why they brought a dwarf on such a mission is the real question!

Of course their presence isn't ignored. They appear at least twice in the trilogy, once to save Gandalf and again to rescue Frodo and Sam.

They were just ignored for the obvious solution to a very real problem.

So they sent a group of nine with blundering children (Merry and Pippin) and a clunky dwarf (Gimli) instead of mature, battle-hardened elven rangers who could sneak.

It makes perfect sense!

 

[Prince of Happiness]

Why not send a pack of kaiju lv. 10 fighter/lv. 10 paladin/lv. 10kensai/lv. 10 dragon disciple hobbits on kaiju dire half-celestial lv. 20 mystic giant eagle half-girallons with +5 keen vorpal talons and beaks with +5 mithril feathers coated in oils of etheralness? I mean, duh. It's not like Sauron has +5 keen vorpal surface-to-air missles of Kaiju dire half-celectial Lv. 20 mystic giant eagle half-girallon slaying batteries.