LOTR from a gamer's perspective

[Vocenoctum]

No, they were driven away by Aragorn. The movie got that right.

Have a passage for it? Frodo got stabbed & passed out, and even Aragorn is wondering why they didn't attack again. There is no torch and sword fight that I saw at a glance in the book. Strider even says that "Elbereth" had some effect... (though it really should be drawn in the ground with an athame...)

The river destroyed them and their mounts. Being incorporeal undead, they sought new forms.

I did check while I had the book out, and all nine were swept away. I didn't bother looking for the mention of their exact status afterwards though.

And I think that statement about the Witch King is highly speculative.

Of course, but it stands to follow. If he's beaten by the river and beaten by Eowyn, and reforms once but not the second time, that would seem strange. Simple enough to assume that the power of the One Ring backed the power of the Nine Rings and that power would vanish with the destruction of the One.

If your opponent drops first, you win.

It's a matter of Gandalfs capabilities though. Saying he'd beat the Nine, or Sauron, or Gollum, when it's all based on him having beat the Balrog doesn't follow if he just happened to keep the Balrog from unfolding his wings and not hitting the ground at high velocity.

 

[molonel]

Why not send a pack of kaiju lv. 10 fighter/lv. 10 paladin/lv. 10kensai/lv. 10 dragon disciple hobbits on kaiju dire half-celestial lv. 20 mystic giant eagle half-girallons with +5 keen vorpal talons and beaks with +5 mithril feathers coated in oils of etheralness? I mean, duh. It's not like Sauron has +5 keen vorpal surface-to-air missles of Kaiju dire half-celectial Lv. 20 mystic giant eagle half-girallon batteries.

Vorpal is overrated, in my opinion.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

Vorpal is overrated, in my opinion.

We'll just make them all RIFTS Juicers and call it a done deal.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Of course it is.

The reason it annoys purists is because it's too simple, not dramatic enough and actually makes sense.

Actually, I think the annoyance factor is as much based on faith that Tolkien thought it through and decided it would not work.

Of course their presence isn't ignored. They appear at least twice in the trilogy, once to save Gandalf and again to rescue Frodo and Sam.

They were just ignored for the obvious solution to a very real problem.

So they sent a group of nine with blundering children (Merry and Pippin) and a clunky dwarf (Gimli) instead of mature, battle-hardened elven rangers who could sneak.

It makes perfect sense!

I think they all figure they're going to fail anyway really, but that any other path is more likely to fail.

There's also Saruman to consider, his capabilities are not well known either. I think the team was already too big, but they didn't want any of the folks that were "in the know" wandering about.

Anyway, in D&D, the players would probably have failed a ride check and fallen off the giant eagles to their deaths at 20D6...

 

[Someone]

Actually, I think the annoyance factor is as much based on faith that Tolkien thought it through and decided it would not work.

Of course. The book would have been much shorter.

 

[molonel]

Have a passage for it? Frodo got stabbed & passed out, and even Aragorn is wondering why they didn't attack again. There is no torch and sword fight that I saw at a glance in the book. Strider even says that "Elbereth" had some effect... (though it really should be drawn in the ground with an athame...)

They had no reason to withdraw. Patience? Yeah right. Aragorn drove them away. I'm mostly kidding in this conversation, but in the books, that's how it went down. Jackson got it right.

Since I'm sitting at work, I'll let another page monkey give us a shout out.

I did check while I had the book out, and all nine were swept away. I didn't bother looking for the mention of their exact status afterwards though.

They had to go back and reform because their forms were slain. Then, they were given new mounts.

Of course, but it stands to follow. If he's beaten by the river and beaten by Eowyn, and reforms once but not the second time, that would seem strange. Simple enough to assume that the power of the One Ring backed the power of the Nine Rings and that power would vanish with the destruction of the One.

Perhaps.

It's a matter of Gandalfs capabilities though. Saying he'd beat the Nine, or Sauron, or Gollum, when it's all based on him having beat the Balrog doesn't follow if he just happened to keep the Balrog from unfolding his wings and not hitting the ground at high velocity.

They fell in the water.

Nice try, though.

Actually, I think the annoyance factor is as much based on faith that Tolkien thought it through and decided it would not work.

Tolkien wrote an interesting yarn. He's like Frank Miller. I mean, c'mon, if a gamer ran Superman, Batman would never have a chance.

He was going for story quality rather "fast and easy."

Tolkien didn't decide the eagles wouldn't work, because he's the author. If he says they work, they work. He decided to go another route.

I think they all figure they're going to fail anyway really, but that any other path is more likely to fail.

Or it was just more interesting this way, which is the more likely path.

Although at points slogging through the Two Towers, I questioned whether or not it was actually more interesting.

Anyway, in D&D, the players would probably have failed a ride check and fallen off the giant eagles to their deaths at 20D6...

As if.

They'd have Rings of Feather Falling, and potions of Fly are dirt cheap. With the elves of Rivendell equipping them? Not a chance!

 

[molonel]

We'll just make them all RIFTS Juicers and call it a done deal.

Exactly!

Now see? Here is someone thinking like a gamer.

 

[Prince of Happiness]

Exactly!

Now see? Here is someone thinking like a gamer.

Damn right!

 

[Vocenoctum]

They had no reason to withdraw. Patience? Yeah right. Aragorn drove them away. I'm mostly kidding in this conversation, but in the books, that's how it went down. Jackson got it right.

Since I'm sitting at work, I'll let another page monkey give us a shout out.

I'm just saying, I looked in the book and don't see it. Sure I may have missed it, but I looked right where the attack occurs. They find the cloak, he points at the little slash and says Frodo's useless and ugly, then says that calling on Elbereth probably did it. Plus they were only 5 of the 9 and probably not sure of pressing their luck so close to the Ring.

They'd have Rings of Feather Falling, and potions of Fly are dirt cheap. With the elves of Rivendell equipping them? Not a chance!

Nyah, they'd have blown all their money on magic swords.

 

[VirgilCaine]

Sauron has thankfully read The Book of Eldritch Might. Teleport Redirect dumps them all into Sauron's throneroom where his Gaze paralyses them. Sauron takes Ring. The End.

I'll do you one better.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm

Areas of strong physical or magical energy may make teleportation more hazardous or even impossible.

Yeah, Elrond could get you there in a jiffy if it wasn't a VOLCANO!