Lousy Poker Face?

[Infiniti2000]

Metagaming is the use of out-of-game information or resources to impact the game. And, despite your assertion, it isn't always wrong.

I think it needs to be a bit more specific. Metagaming is the use of out-of-game information to affect in-game decisions, not just impact the game. This clarification is important because your examples don't actually relate to in game decisions. If you're teaching/training someone how to play a game, ANY game, there always must be metagaming. You could say the same thing about basketball. I might let my 5-year-old "beat me" but clearly I'm metagaming the outcome. If you alter the rules of the game, that's not making a difference in in-game decisions. So, if we "speed up" the aftermath of an encounter because it's midnight, that's not metagaming. On the other hand, if I have my character steal an apple because it's after 11pm (and for no other reason), then yeah, that's metagaming, and it's wrong.

Staying within genre is typically metagaming.

How so? Isn't this just following the rules? Your PC certainly doesn't know about nuclear physics, even if you do, so introducing it wouldn't be metagaming, it would be against the rules. There's a difference.

 

[Rune]

To the OP:

I say, embrace it. Use it. I fully expect my players to read me while we game. I definitely read them. I use it (and so do they, I'm sure) to direct the flow and direction of the game into something enjoyable. And, occasionally, downright rat-bastardy.

Case in point:

This is terrible advice. For all the players out there reading this, don't listen to Janx. You'll get yourself booted from any decent game.

I had a player who would sneak looks at my notes frequently. I didn't boot him (and I ran a decent game, by the way). What I did do was start leaving decoy notes behind the screen. Much more subtle (and effective).

After all, when the rest of the group realizes that such a player's behavior is actually making things harder for all of them, they'll sanction that player on their own. Or not, but that's up to them.

 

[Janx]

That's inane. Those "tools" are no more available to me than keeping a copy of the adventure module on hand so I can look up what to do next. Or, say, threaten the DM with physical harm should he not give me that magical item I wanted. I reread your post and I can find no other way to infer from what you wrote than that you recommend that players out there should steal and cheat. This isn't about 30-year friendships and how it's cool to prank your buddy.

yet you couldn't deduce that I didn't mean them seriously by the fact that of the 3 items I listed in comma delimited order, I only went into detail on the last of them, the actually useful advice?

I was kidding. I read your retorts and don't get a warm and fuzzy that you get my vibe. Saying "Don't listen to Janx" is a bit over-reactive than simply disregardning the teasing advice that wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

 

[D'karr]

To the OP:

I say, embrace it. Use it. I fully expect my players to read me while we game. I definitely read them. I use it (and so do they, I'm sure) to direct the flow and direction of the game into something enjoyable. And, occasionally, downright rat-bastardy.

Case in point:



I had a player who would sneak looks at my notes frequently. I didn't boot him (and I ran a decent game, by the way). What I did do was start leaving decoy notes behind the screen. Much more subtle (and effective).

After all, when the rest of the group realizes that such a player's behavior is actually making things harder for all of them, they'll sanction that player on their own. Or not, but that's up to them.

A disinformation campaign... Those are the best.

 

[TarionzCousin]

Several years ago, I was co-GM'ing a huge monthly Amber Diceless campaign game. There were two of us creating the game, and 5-9 other GM's helping run it. Each session took place over at least 8 hours of real time. There were 11 players.

During session two, I had two players for most of the day to myself: J and G. G was an old friend of mine. I noticed that he looked for my reaction to almost everything that happened, albeit subtly. He is a very sly person naturally, and it took me a couple hours to figure out what he was doing.

So before Session 3, at the Big GM's meeting, I told all the GM's what G did. I advised them to try to keep a poker face while running the game. It worked. Suddenly G went from a mind-reader to an ordinary player in the game.

--And he was very upset about it. He learned that I had told everyone his method and he felt that I had somewhat wrongly taken its effectiveness away from him.

Ten years later he is still a little upset at me. Of course, I also pulled The Most Evil GM Trick Ever™ on him during that game, but that's another story.

 

[Rune]

Of course, I also pulled The Most Evil GM Trick Ever™ on him during that game, but that's another story.

Do tell!

 

[Tamlyn]

I've perfected the "always grinning face" which works perfectly. It works so good that the players even screw themselves when they make a decision based on my smirk. Whenever they are discussing a situation among themselves, just smile. And always roll dice. I make it a habit to roll dice as often as a person might fidget. It has become my way of fidgeting. That way, they never know when I'm rolling for real, or rolling secretly.

The grinning thing is pretty funny though. It cracks me up when all the players turn just to look at my face to see if I give a reaction. My wife is the funniest about it. As long as they've known me, they still think that my smile means something and she'll be the one to look and say, "Look, he's smiling so he knows we are right!" That just makes me laugh and smile more. Even if they are right, I'll be sarcastic and say, "Go ahead. See what happens." Then I smile even more when they start doubting themselves, "Hmm, now he's trying to trick us."

<Must spread some XP around>

Definitely this. I grin and fake-roll all the time. My players sometimes joke that I'm only rolling for show, but they're wrong about that more often than not.

When they ask specific questions about some situation, I try not to answer their questions. Instead, I info-dump. I re-tell them what their characters know, what they've encountered before, what they've seen or heard leading up to this, etc...

That's when they think they've missed something. And when they start doubting themselves, they usually start ignoring me and focusing on each other, trying to figure out what they've missed. And when they look up to ask me something else, I'm grinning and rolling!

 

[Olaf the Stout]

A disinformation campaign... Those are the best.

Or possibly just the starting point of escalating passive agressive behaviour.

Personally if I had a player continually peeking at my adventure notes I'd politely ask them to stop. If they continued doing it they would get a more formal warning, so they knew I was serious. If it still continued booting would be the next step.

Thankfully I'm lucky to have a group that I trust to the point of not having a DM screen. All my rolls are done in the open, apart from ones where they shouldn't know the result (i.e. hiding skill check, checking for traps).

Given the open-ness of this set up, sometimes I will give the players that sit next to me a little tease my having in plain sight a picture of a certain monster, or have the MM open to a particular page.

The only thing I do tend to hide is my minis. Often I'll leave the ones I need on my bookcase in another room and go and grab them when I'm about to use them.

The only reason I do that though is I like seeing their reactions when I put the minis down on the table. If I had them sitting next to me the whole session they still might bug-out a little when they saw it, but it still doesn't give the same joint instantaneous reaction you get when you plonk a Beholder down on the battlemat!

I can still remember my players "Oh S#$%!!!" reactions from our Shackled City campaign when they were just 2nd level and I put a Beholder on the table. This was probably matched by their reactions to the Glabrezu and the Dracolich!

Olaf the Stout

 

[Olaf the Stout]

I've perfected the "always grinning face" which works perfectly. It works so good that the players even screw themselves when they make a decision based on my smirk. Whenever they are discussing a situation among themselves, just smile. And always roll dice. I make it a habit to roll dice as often as a person might fidget. It has become my way of fidgeting. That way, they never know when I'm rolling for real, or rolling secretly.

The grinning thing is pretty funny though. It cracks me up when all the players turn just to look at my face to see if I give a reaction. My wife is the funniest about it. As long as they've known me, they still think that my smile means something and she'll be the one to look and say, "Look, he's smiling so he knows we are right!" That just makes me laugh and smile more. Even if they are right, I'll be sarcastic and say, "Go ahead. See what happens." Then I smile even more when they start doubting themselves, "Hmm, now he's trying to trick us."

Yeah, I don't have a great poker face, so I go with the big grin. It's something I've always done. Funnily enough, people always seem to think that I'm lying when I do it.

In non-game situations that can possibly be a bad thing. When I'm DM'ing it can be a great way of getting the players to second guess themselves.

Olaf the Stout

 

[howandwhy99]

My DM prepares for battle before every session and wears a bandanna around his forehead throughout each. He is a master of the pokerface and this only changes when exhibiting a mood for an NPC. Pretty awesome once one understands the depths of what is going on.

(He's gotta listen to Lady Gaga at full volume every Sunday morning to prep himself)