lycanthrope ECL?

[0-hr]

If a character wanted to start out as an afflicted lycanthrope (specifically, wolf), what would the ECL be?

If they become afflicted later, it looks like they just get all of the extra abilities for free; which seems a bit munchkiny. At best, it is only RP issues to balance them out (and we all know that RP factors are not supposed to balance game mechanics ).

 

[Caliban]

If a character wanted to start out as an afflicted lycanthrope (specifically, wolf), what would the ECL be?

If they become afflicted later, it looks like they just get all of the extra abilities for free; which seems a bit munchkiny. At best, it is only RP issues to balance them out (and we all know that RP factors are not supposed to balance game mechanics ).

Afflicted lycanthropy is a curse, not a benefit. You get all the abilities only when you change into an evil beast and start bathing in the entrails of innocents. You never use them voluntarily, your an NPC while changed.

 

[Xarlen]

Re: Re: lycanthrope ECL?

Afflicted lycanthropy is a curse, not a benefit. You get all the abilities only when you change into an evil beast and start bathing in the entrails of innocents. You never use them voluntarily, your an NPC while changed.

Unless you're a NATURAL lycanthrope.

I have a werewolf in my party, the NPC tank. +3 ECL seems to work just fine for It seems very balanced with the ohter PCs.

 

[Caliban]

Re: Re: Re: lycanthrope ECL?

Unless you're a NATURAL lycanthrope.

That's probably why I started my sentence with AFFLICTED Lycanthropy.

See, if I had been talking about Natural Lycanthropy, I would have said "Natural" instead of "Afflicted".

 

[0-hr]

And the ECL for an afflicted werebear would be what? Or are their extra abilities balanced out by the fact that they are forced to be nice to people when in their alternate form?

 

[Caliban]

And the ECL for an afflicted werebear would be what? Or are their extra abilities balanced out by the fact that they are forced to be nice to people when in their alternate form?

You seem to think that the were-form is the natural form for an afflicted lcyanthrope. It's not. The were-form is the alternate form, and you do evil things when you are forced to were out.

Afflicted Lycanthropy is balanced out by the fact that the you don't get to play your character when he changes into a were-creature. The DM get's to control your character and attack fellow party members and kittens.

Afflicted Lycanthropy is a curse. It should never be a benefit to the PC, it should be something that causes them endless problems. Within a few sessions the player should be begging for a cure of some sort.

There is no ECL for an afflicted lycanthrope because you never get to conciously use those abilities.

The best you can hope for is that the DM creates a prestige class that allows you to slowly control your curse as you take levels in it. (With the prestige class having levels equal to the ECL of the matching natural lycanthrope.) Even then, you are risking alignment change because you are concsiously putting everyone around you at risk by not getting yourself cured as soon as possible.

And ECL +3 not appropriate for all lycanthropes. I can see it for werewolves and wererats, but weretigers and werebears should have a higher ECL because of their more powerful were-forms.

 

[0-hr]

Hmm, nothing in the SRD about that. Does the MM have additional text, or has it been explained in a FAQ somewhere?

 

[Caliban]

Hmm, nothing in the SRD about that. Does the MM have additional text, or has it been explained in a FAQ somewhere?

From the SRD:

Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid hit by a lycanthrope’s bite attack in animal form must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 15) or contract lycanthropy. A wererat can spread lycanthropy with its bite or by hitting with a piercing or slashing weapon. Bludgeoning or nonpenetrating attacks do not transmit the condition.

Lycanthropy as an Affliction

When a character contracts lycanthropy through a lycanthrope’s attack (see above), no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon. On that night, the afflicted character involuntarily assumes animal form and becomes a ravening beast, forgetting his or her own identity. The character remains in animal form, assuming the appropriate alignment, until dawn and remembers nothing about the incident.

Thereafter, the character is subject to involuntary transformation under the full moon and whenever damaged in combat. He or she feels an overwhelming rage building up and must succeed at a Control Shape check to resist changing into animal form (see the sidebar).

Many lycanthropes are born, not made, and are sometimes called "natural lycanthropes" to distinguish them from those who have contracted lycanthropy ("afflicted lycanthropes").

The same text is in the MM.

 

[0-hr]

Ok, so you're reading it to mean that every transformation is like that first night. That's not the way it looked to me, but I can see where it's a possible interpretation. Why would someone spend skill points to change-on-demand then? Changing into a beast is bad, and changing back is impossible (because you are ravening and not under your own control).

Also the text just doesn't suggest to me that a werebear would be anything other than Neutal (like a bear) or Lawful Good (like a werebear). The terms "ravening" and "overwhelming rage" certainly sound like non-good behavior. Then again, I've seen some pretty zealous paladins in my time; and I certainly don't take control of the barbarian PCs when they go into a rage (not even the first time).

Anyway, if that's all the text there is (and I've read it rather closely a few time now) then I guess that's that. Thanks for the help.


I wonder where the sidebar is...

 

[Caliban]

Ok, so you're reading it to mean that every transformation is like that first night. That's not the way it looked to me, but I can see where it's a possible interpretation.

Every change for an inflicted lycanthrope is involuntary.

If you ever voluntarily change, you have succumbed to the curse. Your alignment permanently changes to that of the were-form. Welcome to NPC land.

Why would someone spend skill points to change-on-demand then? Changing into a beast is bad, and changing back is impossible (because you are ravening and not under your own control).

You buy ranks to avoid changing in the first place, and if you are aware of your condition you get once chance to change back before you are lost to the beast.

If you have succumbed to the curse, you are now evil and may then try to bring about the change voluntarily.

From the SRD:

Check: The afflicted character must make a check at moonrise each night of the full moon to resist involuntarily assuming animal form. An injured character must also check for an involuntary change after accumulating enough damage to reduce his or her hit points by one-quarter and again after each additional one-quarter lost (save DC same as for full moon).

...

An afflicted character who is aware of his or her condition can also try to return to humanoid from after assuming animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate DC. Only one attempt is allowed, however, as described above.

Also the text just doesn't suggest to me that a werebear would be anything other than Neutal (like a bear) or Lawful Good (like a werebear). The terms "ravening" and "overwhelming rage" certainly sound like non-good behavior. Then again, I've seen some pretty zealous paladins in my time; and I certainly don't take control of the barbarian PCs when they go into a rage (not even the first time).

I think the text is assuming that only evil lycanthropes will try to inflict it on other people.

And a barbarians rage is not a cursed affliction, which is what lycanthropy is.

This is not Werewolf: the Apocalypse.