lycanthrope ECL?

[Berk]

Just stating one thing that people seem to be over looking, not all lycanthrope forms are evil =op

And yes, afflicted means when you assume animal or hybrid form you are an NPC.

Natural means you get control over your own actions and what not.

As for a werebear and weretiger ECL's I don't really know. Weretiger I'd place around +5 or so and werebear prolly around +4.

But then again, why would you wanna be a lycanthrope since you can be a half-celestial with uber immunities and ability scores for only a +3.

 

[0-hr]

afflicted means when you assume animal or hybrid form you are an NPC.

Natural means you get control over your own actions and what not.

Can you give me a book and page number for that cuz I've read the SRD and it ain't in there.

 

[Caliban]

Can you give me a book and page number for that cuz I've read the SRD and it ain't in there.

From the SRD:

When a character contracts lycanthropy through a lycanthrope’s attack (see above), no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon. On that night, the afflicted character involuntarily assumes animal form and becomes a ravening beast, forgetting his or her own identity.

The afflicted character must make a check at moonrise each night of the full moon to resist involuntarily assuming animal form. An injured character must also check for an involuntary change after accumulating enough damage to reduce his or her hit points by one-quarter and again after each additional one-quarter lost (save DC same as for full moon).

... When returning to normal form after an involuntary change, the character attempts a Wisdom check (DC 15) to realize what has happened.

Involuntary Change = NPC. You don't have any memories of what happened while you were wered out. You have to make a Wisdom check to even realize that you changed.

If I trust the player to do it right, I might let them roleplay the evil lycanthropic version of themself, but everything is subject to my review.

 

[0-hr]

I agree that the change is involuntary. The rest is interpretation bordering on house rules.

 

[Voadam]

From the SRD:

Curse of Lycanthropy (Su): Any humanoid hit by a lycanthrope’s bite attack in animal form must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC 15) or contract lycanthropy. A wererat can spread lycanthropy with its bite or by hitting with a piercing or slashing weapon. Bludgeoning or nonpenetrating attacks do not transmit the condition.

Lycanthropy as an Affliction

When a character contracts lycanthropy through a lycanthrope’s attack (see above), no symptoms appear until the first night of the next full moon. On that night, the afflicted character involuntarily assumes animal form and becomes a ravening beast, forgetting his or her own identity. The character remains in animal form, assuming the appropriate alignment, until dawn and remembers nothing about the incident.

Thereafter, the character is subject to involuntary transformation under the full moon and whenever damaged in combat. He or she feels an overwhelming rage building up and must succeed at a Control Shape check to resist changing into animal form (see the sidebar).

Many lycanthropes are born, not made, and are sometimes called "natural lycanthropes" to distinguish them from those who have contracted lycanthropy ("afflicted lycanthropes").

The same text is in the MM.

See, I read this section differently from Caliban. The first transformation seems to have two separately listed effects, an involuntary transformation and no memory of what happens. They happen at the same time but I do not read that description to say that losing identity is a subcomponent of involuntary transformation. to do that I would expect them to write that the first night the character involuntarily transforms and then separately state that whenever a character involuntary transforms he loses his identity. Because of the "and" and the phrasing they use it reads as two separate conditions to me. Subsequent events cause involuntary transformations but do not specify identity loss. So my take on these rules is that you only lose identity on the first transformation.

 

[Caliban]

I agree that the change is involuntary. The rest is interpretation bordering on house rules.

Let me guess, you want your PC to be inflicted with Lycanthropy, right?

What part of Cursed Affliction are you missing here? It's not supposed to be a cool power-up for your character.

 

[Caliban]

See, I read this section differently from Caliban. The first transformation seems to have two separately listed effects, an involuntary transformation and no memory of what happens. They happen at the same time but I do not read that description to say that losing identity is a subcomponent of involuntary transformation. to do that I would expect them to write that the first night the character involuntarily transforms and then separately state that whenever a character involuntary transforms he loses his identity. Because of the "and" and the phrasing they use it reads as two separate conditions to me. Subsequent events cause involuntary transformations but do not specify identity loss. So my take on these rules is that you only lose identity on the first transformation.

*shrug* I think that because of the phrasing they use, it's very clear that any involuntary change involves the loss of identity, and temporary alignment change.

If you retain your identity, why would you have to make a wisdom check to realize that you changed into a werewolf?

Why would it state that your alignment permanently changes to that of the werewolf if you ever voluntarily give into the change?


You guys are trying to make a cursed affliction something desireable to seek out. Stop trying to weasel the rules.

 

[0-hr]

Let me guess, you want your PC to be inflicted with Lycanthropy, right?

No, I'm mainly just aguing because some people made up some stuff and then posted it like it was cannonical fact.

And I almost would have believed it except for the evil werebear thing. Everyone knows that werebears are good guys. Always have been (just ask Bilbo ).

I asked the original question because I'm a DM and there's a fair chance that one of the PCs in my campaign has lycanthropy. I was trying to judge what impact it would have on the storyline given the low-magic, low-power setting.

 

[Caliban]

No, I'm mainly just aguing because some people made up some stuff and then posted it like it was cannonical fact.

And I almost would have believed it except for the evil werebear thing. Everyone knows that werebears are good guys. Always have been (just ask Bilbo ).

The "cursed affliction" part is primarily intended for good characters who have been attacked by evil lycanthropes.

I don't think any good characters are in danger of being attacked by a werebear.

It would probably be pretty bad for an evil character though. (He changes to werebear, and wakes up to find himself in jail, because he turned himself into the authorities. Or he gave his cash away to charity, or he turned on his evil comrades, etc.)

It could even be very annoying to a good aligned character. Your werebear identity may not have the same goals or personality that you do. It may be more fanatically "good" than you would ever be, and could change, then regain your normal self to find that you have given away your money, promised to undertake a quest (free of charge!), find out that you have been lecturing the paladin on morality, etc.

I asked the original question because I'm a DM and there's a fair chance that one of the PCs in my campaign has lycanthropy. I was trying to judge what impact it would have on the storyline given the low-magic, low-power setting.

I showed you quotes from the SRD that states they involuntarily change, lose their identity, and are in danger of losing their alignment if they every voluntarily change. I do agree that they don't seem to consider the case of being afflicted by a "good" aligned lycanthrope.

This is not intended to be a good thing for the PC's. (Although as I said earlier, I could see a prestige class that allows you to eventually control the curse and become a "natural" lycanthrope")

 

[Voadam]

*shrug* I think that because of the phrasing they use, it's very clear that any involuntary change involves the loss of identity, and temporary alignment change.

If you retain your identity, why would you have to make a wisdom check to realize that you changed into a werewolf?

Why would it state that your alignment permanently changes to that of the werewolf if you ever voluntarily give into the change?


You guys are trying to make a cursed affliction something desireable to seek out. Stop trying to weasel the rules.

Well, here is the srd quote for this part:

When returning to normal form after an involuntary change, the character attempts a Wisdom check (DC 15) to realize what has happened. If the check succeeds, the character becomes aware of the affliction and can now voluntarily attempt to change to animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate DC. An attempt is a standard action and can be made each round. Any voluntary change to animal or hybrid form immediately and permanently changes the character’s alignment to that of the appropriate lycanthrope.

An afflicted character who is aware of his or her condition can also try to return to humanoid from after assuming animal or hybrid form, using the appropriate DC. Only one attempt is allowed, however, as described above.

I read this "realizing what happened" to be an understanding of the process that occurred so that now, given that understanding, the character can attempt to induce a change using the control change skill.

Under Caliban's reading that they always lose identity and forget the incident I guess this means they remember the incident and can now use control shape to unconsciously change back to humanoid after having temporarily lost their identity and alignment to the beast.

This can work but I still feel having the first transformation be different from subsequent ones is a more natural reading of the rules laid out in the srd and MM.

Night one involves 3 things, involuntary change, loss of identity, and no memory. Other full moons and wounding only trigger involuntary changes.

And that is how I run it in my game where PCs have become infected with lycanthropy.

It makes it a lot easier to run than if I had to send the characters out of the room to keep them from being aware of what happens every time they are wounded significantly.

There are still plenty of downsides to involuntary changes as the heavily armored infected fighter of my group and the infected wizard without silent spell have found out.