Lycanthropes - As tough as it gets (a rant against 3.5 DR).

Zappo said:
I, too, like 3.5 DR better. There's the "golf bag syndrome", but it's better than the basically insignificant DR of 3.0. I, too, think werecreatures ought to use regeneration though.

Okay, I'm changing that RIGHT NOW. Regeneration makes much more sense for them than DR, since almost everything else (99.99%) with DR [3.0 MM only] is an outsider, golem or undead, and thus, to a point, "unnatural" whereas lycanthropes aren't.
 
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Toras said:
I will be the first to admit that 3.5 DR rules are interesting, and not at all unappropriate.

The problem I have with it is that it makes Power Attack a required feat, and puts the shaft to any duelist or single one handed weapon fighter. Any 2-handed fighter can get through DR like it was nothing, any archer has an arrow or two for any occasion, and the 2 weapon fighter will likely have at least 1 weapon that might be effective.

First off, after a full year of using 3.5 DR in my campaigns, I've *NEVER* seen the golfbag syndrome. What I have seen is that party's tend to acquire an occasional cold iron, alchemical silver or adamantine weapon over time. Most players don't make a big deal out of the weapon's material type. Given a choice between a +1 cold iron sword or a +1 flaming sword, most will take the flaming sword. Still, most players won't turn down a weapon made of a special material and will tend to hang onto it as a backup weapon. Rarely does the party have more than 1 or 2 weapons of any given special material - a silvered dagger here, a cold iron battleaxe there. No golfbag... just a nice feature you sometimes opt for.

The DR rules do make Power Attack a viable and popular strategy for overwhelming DR (hell, Power Attack is almost a must for any tank even if we ignore DR entirely). Sneak attack damage dice can also help overwhelm DR (at least against critter vulnerable to such damage). A nice big + on a weapon along with other damage bonuses (e.g. strength, weapon specialization) can overwhelm DR. Bane weapons are great for overwhelming DR. Finesse fighters often have sneak attack damage (when flanking) or other sources of damage enhancement. Spellcasters can, via several spells, temporarily allow a weapon to bypass DR.

In any case, DR5/whatever tends to not be a big deal if players lack the bypassing attack type. If the party lacks the means to bypass DR5, it just means the creature is tougher. Lots of these weaker DRs offer either a common attack type (e.g. bludgeon) or multiple attack types (e.g. cold iron or good) to bypass them.

DR10/whatever is worthy of respect and will make a critter a whole lot tougher if you can't get around it. Most frontline PCs of appropriate CR will tend to be able to produce over 10 points of damage on attacks, so they can still overwhelm it. Still, having to overwhelm such a DR means nickle-and-diming the creature to death or relying upon your spellcasters to inflict the bulk of the damage.

DR15/whatever or more is a very serious foe. Few unexpected encounters (except perhaps at very high level) are of this caliber. Odds are you know that this creature will be your foe or you are so powerful that you have the means to get around its DR.

This is doubly true for any creature with a high DR that requires X and Y. A smart party should be seeking out special weapons to defeat such a beast if they don't already have them. If you plan on facing a pit fiend, then maybe it's worth going on a side quest to find the Holy Silver Sword of St. Philbert first.

High DRs that a party can't overcome will make frontal assaults ineffective, true, but I've seen those situations bring out some excellent creativity in players. The rogue who's rapier isn't hurting the construct starts tossing alchemical grenade weapons, or using the aid another action to assist the power attacking barbarian, or luring the creature away from the spellcasters (or into a booby trap).
 
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Closest to golfbag I'd ever go is as a character I devised: He had a cold iron gauntlet on one hand (where he also wore his buckler), a dagger each of silver and cold iron, and all of his arrows were cold iron. Trick is, he dealt with outsiders on a daily basis, and had an outright hatred of fey creatures (and the gauntlet just made him look interesting, while the arrows were relatively cheap). Heck, his primary weapon was a glassteel (ala 2e) rapier, which went well with his crimson, perfumed-covered whip.
 

Golf Bag of Ehlonna

My Living Greyhawk Character has about 12 different weapons, from admantine, to silver, to magic, and he usually uses all of them in a module. He's been this way since 3.0, and will probably always be that way. I'm of the mind that you should always have the perfect weapon for the occasion (even if it's a pair of 3.0 Great Crossbows and a 3.5 Composite Longbow with Quick Draw and Rapid Shot).
 

The 3.5 Damage Reduction rules present in some way a major shift in the meaning of Damage Reduction.
In 3.0, DR basically was a pointer saying: "If you can´t beat this damage reduction, run. You´re out of your league". It was a big stop sign, and a Dungeon Master throwing such a creature against the player´s either want them dead or make a point (or both) :). It often was also a good explaination why it had to be the characters going against the monster - nobody else had a chance of hurting it.

The 3.5 Damage Reduction is not a stop sign. It just says "Respect Right of Way" - "be prepared or this will make it a hard fight". The DR in 3.5 means that you have to accept that you sometimes have to fight monsters whose DR you can´t ignore - but that you can defeat even with this hindrance.
 

Actually the only time when I encountered the golf bag syndrome was in a group of CRPG loving powergamermunchkins (Baldurs Gate!) playing 2nd ed AD&D or 3.0 (because 3.5 is nerfed ;)).
 

I agree with the posts here, 3.5 DR is far superior to previous versions. To me the extra flavour means players need to think, rather than just trying to power their way through everything they meet by having the biggest plus on their weapon.
 
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Incenjucar said:
Heck, his primary weapon was a glassteel (ala 2e) rapier, which went well with his crimson, perfumed-covered whip.

I would love to make the obvious comment here about that whip, but I doubt Eric's Grandma would approve!

On topic though, in twenty five odd years of playing I have only ever seen golf bagging back when the average age of the group was around 12. Yep, my group (until it dissolved due to marriages, children woirk pressure and thus my taking up of PBP), was far more interested in Rping, golf bagging just never raised its head (in any edition).
 

Wow! I walk away for a day and now there are 4 pages of replies to my original post. I love this place!

Anyway, another gripe has been mentioned. One of the posters said that Fireball bypasses DR. Why is it that DR applies to the aforementioned Uber Magical Sword which takes greater magic to create when DR does NOT apply to a measly 1st level spell like Magic Missle? It seems to me that it should be one or the other. Either all magic bypasses it or none at all unless it uses an energy source that bypasses DR (like fire against cold creatures with DR).
 

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