M.A.R. Barker, author of Tekumel, also author of Neo-Nazi book?

[Umbran]

Sturgeon’s Law does not account for taste, true.

I'd say, instead, that it does, in that the definition of "crap" is not objective. Even from the point of view of your personal taste, 90% of everything is crap. It just happens that your 10% likely overlaps someone else's 90%.

 

[the Jester]

But, my point is, at no point EVER do D&D players step back and declare, "Nope, I'm going to play a Marxist revolutionary! Death to tyrants!!!" It's always, "Hey, isn't it grand that we're playing in a setting filled with horror and misery, but, we'll just lampshade all of those uncomfortable bits".

I've seen something very close to that, and I have played a character who is very close to a Marxist revolutionary. So I don't think this is as true as you suggest.

 

[overgeeked]

But, my point is, at no point EVER do D&D players step back and declare, "Nope, I'm going to play a Marxist revolutionary! Death to tyrants!!!" It's always, "Hey, isn't it grand that we're playing in a setting filled with horror and misery, but, we'll just lampshade all of those uncomfortable bits".

I've seen something very close to that, and I have played a character who is very close to a Marxist revolutionary. So I don't think this is as true as you suggest.

We’ve done that, too. Played in a campaign setting with several despotic rulers and after a TPK decided our next batch of zero-to-hero characters would lead a revolution. This was in the old days with actual risk of character death, building castles, domain management, etc. We pulled it off, the first time, at home, but our armies were crushed when two neighboring despots joined forces. Absolutely wonderful game.

 

[Mallus]

Our 4e campaign had a Marxist Dwarven avenger who swore the Oath of Dialectical Materialism and a Dragonborn who wrote propaganda for the goblin labor movement. The party’s battlecry was ”Universal Healthcare“ (which shouldn’t be construed as Marxist, but we live in the US...).

Dungeons & Marxism. It happens.

(occasionally)

 

[pemerton]

Well, a Marxist revolutionary in the typical D&D world would be even more confused about the material basis for the revolution than our real world ones circa 1917.

 

[Hussar]

Sigh, you'd think I'd know better by now than to say things like never or always. Inevitably someone will say, "Well, this one time, in the 40 years I've been gaming" we did this so, that totally debunks your point. We'll ignore the other 38 years where we didn't do that because it's so much better to be technically right.

 

[pemerton]

@Hussar, do you know the Scourge of the Slavelords "supermodule"? It has a NPC called Targil the Red. It's a long time since I used that module - I'm thinking back to 1990 or 91 - but my recollection is that we took "the Red" at face value and assumed him to be some sort of revolutionary. I can't remember now how we reconciled that with him being an agent for the Slavelords, but it's always possible to rationalise seemingly contradictory commitments (witness the main topic of this thread!).

 

[MGibster]

Sigh, you'd think I'd know better by now than to say things like never or always. Inevitably someone will say, "Well, this one time, in the 40 years I've been gaming" we did this so, that totally debunks your point. We'll ignore the other 38 years where we didn't do that because it's so much better to be technically right.

When you made the post, I immediately thought of a post from one of the various alignment threads were a person wrote they considered it Chaotic Good to rob from a wealthy merchant to distribute the gold to the poor. They may or may not have used a Marxist justification for that kind of thing. But, yeah, being technically correct is like 98% of the internet.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

@Hussar I just don't get what your point is. Fantasy worlds are not ideal modern democracies, or often not even flawed ones. Yes, everyone knows that, so what? It is hella difficult to have adventures in a well working utopia. Sure, Star Trek kinda manages it, but even there corrupt admirals are so common that it is a trope and of course worlds outside the Federation are far from utopian. Imperfection is conductive for adventure.

Furthermore, when emulating some past era, one by necessity brings along at least some of its expectations, even though they might not perfectly align with modern values.

 

[billd91]

Sigh, you'd think I'd know better by now than to say things like never or always. Inevitably someone will say, "Well, this one time, in the 40 years I've been gaming" we did this so, that totally debunks your point. We'll ignore the other 38 years where we didn't do that because it's so much better to be technically right.

Well, what did you expect? It's like declaring a trend in D&D's art direction based on a small dataset. You get a lot of people chiming in with counterexamples.