Mage Armor, incorporeal creatures and unarmed attacks

[Caliban]

Snippy. And a bit of hypocrasy, IMO.

Please describe this "hypocrasy", because I do believe I am using the spirit of the rules. Mage Armor a defense spell, not an offense spell. It is intended to protect you, it is not intended to make you better able to inflict damage. That's what spells like magic fang and magic weapon are for (in this context).

And you are trying to redifine it as well. I mean, really, it's now a torso shield that acts like chain shirt? Where is that in the rules?

The part where it gives exactly as much protection a chain shirt does (i.e. +4 armor bonus).

Since it gives an armor bonus, it seems to be intended to be nothing more than the equivalent of an invisible, weightless chain shirt composed of force. (It is obviously not shaped exactly like a chain shirt, but claiming that it covers your fists and helps you attack incorporeal creatures is stretching it beyond all reason.)

If it gave a deflection bonus I might be more willing to consider your interpretation, but the mage armor just doesn't work that way.

So is being condescensing and snippy.

I'm just not sure how to respond to someone who is obviously trying to stretch a spell well beyond it's intended effects.

Do you use a lot of straw men when you can't prove a point?

I think I have proven my point. And please explain how my example was a straw man. It used exactly the same type of reasoning you did in your attempt to have Mage Armor empower your unarmed attacks.

Says you. Others say otherwise.

I've seen you and exactly two others, one of which seemed to be on the fence. That's a whole lot of "others" there.

And that's just not the case. At least, it shouldn't be, within reason. To say that no use of a spell can ever exceed the exact wording of it is just plain silly.

And I never said that, did I? But this use of this spell is nowhere near the intent of the spell.

And that's final! No one should have any other opinion.

Did I say that? I don't think so. You are getting quite rude here.

[shrug] I thought I recalled you to going at it in length about the "spirit" of the rules vs. literal wording. Oh well. That's why I thought it was relevant. I even recall you arguing for spirit over blindly following illogic. Wasn't there even discusion of your dwarven cleric using scrolls? Something like that? I don't recall. Maybe I'm completely getting it wrong. [shrug]

I do try to adhere to the spirit of the rules whenever I'm the one who has the authority to make the choice.

What form of the "spirit of the rules" are you using to turn a spell intended to help protect you from incorporeal creatures into a spell that helps you attack them?

And yet, that still doesn't make you "right".

Actually, in this case its the rules that make me right.

And yet it is a [Force] effect and even does discuss it having an effect on incorporeals. [shrug]

It sure does. It helps protect you from them by blocking their attacks. Where does it say it let's you attack them in return?

Yeop...

Seriously. The spell is pretty clear on what benefits it gives you.

I apologize if I have somehow offended you to the point that you are unwilling to be reasonable. That was not my intent.

I ask you to stop making personal attacks on me, because I have made none upon you.

I think your interpetation is wrong, and I will say so in no uncertain terms, but I think you have somehow confused that with a personal attack upon your character.

 

[Caliban]

Support? It surrounds your body, unknown how much, with a force effect of some strength. The spell has the force descriptor

Force affects incorporeal.

It certainly does. The spell works quite well at protecting against incorporeal attacks.

I'm just failing to see where the spell says that it allows you affect incorporeal creatures.

 

[Dr. Zoom]

I'm just failing to see where the spell says that it allows you affect incorporeal creatures.

So am I. I might give an "A for effort" to the player for creative thinking, but the spell will not allow a corporeal creature to grapple an incorporeal one.