Magic Ammunition Costs

[Zhure]

(btw, I'm firmly in the "GMW is an attended object and affected by a targeted dispel" camp, for reasons cited by kreynolds above.)

IF GMW isn't part of the creature for targeted dispels, THEN an area dispel would apply against any affects on the wielder until the dispel gets one AND have a shot against EVERY GMW on the wielder. Similarly, Magic Vestments would be checked separately.

I guess either way you use Dispel works out about the same. When facing a buffed foe, in Karin'sdad's world, you'd use a lot of area dispels; In kreynold's world (and mine and the ones I've played in), you'd use a lot of targeted dispels.

A side note:
- attacks aren't about intent, otherwise Summon Monster X would make you visible.
Greg

 

[kreynolds]

You, on the other hand, disseminate the moment someone quotes a rule that disagrees with your point of view. And, you do this every time from what I can tell.

Now you're the one BSing. I admit when I'm wrong, but only when I'm wrong, and to claim that I never do is nonsese. Although, you did say "from what you can tell", so I guess you can't tell. *shrug*

This from the King of Insults?

I'm flattered.

Are they only playful because you write them, or because you put a smiley face behind them?

They are playful when the intent is obvious, and it was pretty damn obvious that I was just playin' around with you. Perhaps your intent was simply to take a playful comment and twist it around into an insult?

You really should look in the mirror long and hard before calling someone else immature.

I have a feat for that too.

 

[Umbran]

Gentlemen, I ask you to please behave like gentlemen. At this point, both of you should know better than this.

 

[kreynolds]

Gentlemen, I ask you to please behave like gentlemen. At this point, both of you should know better than this.

I haven't gotten nasty...and I don't plan to. It's not worth it. So don't worry.

 

[Crothian]

I haven't gotten nasty...and I don't plan to. It's not worth it. So don't worry.

It's the new and improved Kreynolds

 

[KarinsDad]

IF GMW isn't part of the creature for targeted dispels, THEN an area dispel would apply against any affects on the wielder until the dispel gets one AND have a shot against EVERY GMW on the wielder. Similarly, Magic Vestments would be checked separately.

Absolutely. Now you are understanding.

If I cast Heat Metal on your armor and your ally attempts to do an Area Dispel, he can accidentally dispel a different spell on you, but he will at least get a chance to dispel the Heat Metal every time.

Area Dispel:

"For each object that is the target of one or more spells, you make dispel checks as per creatures."

- attacks aren't about intent, otherwise Summon Monster X would make you visible.

Summon Monster X is not cast directly on the target either. Dispel Magic is.

 

[KarinsDad]

It's the new and improved Kreynolds

hehehe

I'm sure there is a feat for that too.

 

[Anubis]

You have this...



...don't you? (You know I'm kidding though)



If it did, I wouldn't be arguing with you.



See first answer.



Hey, nobody's perfect.



See first answer.

Anyways, I've always seen Dispel Magic as functioning in two (or three, for those that are counting) ways: 1) Targeted Dispel (creature) - affects the creature and all their crap 2) Targeted Dispel (creature's weapon) - affects only the creature's weapon 3) Area Dispel - blah.

Note, that I didn't include "Targeted Dispel - 1 spell out of 27 on creature".

Now THAT was funny! I must admit that I have that as well.

 

[Anubis]

Okay, in kreynolds's defense, the Telekinesis example was a VERY VERY VERY BAD examle. That's like saying Fly effects the equipment of a creature because it flies with the creature. In other words, it's totally and utterly irrelevent in this discussion.

With that, I will give a proper example AND give you the details that support kreynolds and the Sage this time. Savor the flavor, I don't agree with the Sage very often.



First off, you're all quoting a rule that does not apply when you quote the "creature's items survive a magical attack" rule. This applies to damage and destruction only, when things that could actually be destroyed by an attack, things like Disintegrate and Fireball. For proof, read the rest of the paragraph that states that rule.

To elaborate, this is not a matter of equipment being part of a creature, it's a matter of what Dispel Magic targets. The spell says that it targets a creature, object, or area, but what it really targets is SPELLS. Thus, there is nothing to "survive".

Now, because the creature nor the object are actually the "true" target of Dispel Magic, it works far differently. You see, Dispel is different from every other spell because it does something no other spell does. The FUNCTION, however, as in what is effected, DOES have another example that leads proof to the argument that both creature and equipment ARE, in fact, effected.

The Telekinesis example ALMOST worked, but here is an example that DOES work. CHAIN OF CHAOS. You touch a creature, the creature is infected with insanity. That creature can then pass on the insantiy. Here is the key, though: "Each person the subject touches during the spell's duration (including by successful melee attack) must make a Will save at the spell's DC or suffer the insanity effect. The weapon wasn't effected directly by the Chain of Chaos spell, but somehow it manages to pass it along with a melee attack? WRONG. The fact is that *at the time of the casting*, anything carriedby the creature was effected by the spell as well, just not directly. As such, the weapon is effectively hit by the spell. Dispel Magic works exactly the same way!

In other words, although it doesn't "directly" effect the equipment, it still has an effect on it, and in this case, the effect is that all spells ON the equipment may be dispelled because the equipment is part of the creature! To put it more simply, Dispel Magic targets a creature, and equipment within the locale of the creature is considered part of the creature for determining localization of the Dispel Magic effect!

Anyway, I believe I have quoted enough of the correct rules to satisfy people as to the matter of Dispel Magic.

 

[Pax]

IF GMW isn't part of the creature for targeted dispels, THEN an area dispel would apply against any affects on the wielder until the dispel gets one AND have a shot against EVERY GMW on the wielder. Similarly, Magic Vestments would be checked separately.

IMO, this is exactly as it should be. It means a group of 4 adventurers each carrying around 2 or 3 items boosted with GMW or similar spells, is much more vulnerable to an area dispel -- the one dispel stands a chance of gettign ALL the items' temporary enchantments. That simply wouldn't work if the party had been able to purchase permanently enchanted versions of those same items.

On top of which, the first dispel cast on a groupd of adventureres will and should most often be an area dispel -- try and strip spells from everyone and everything in the area of effect.

It retains the superiority of an actual +3 weapon, as opposed to one popped out with GMW each morning. OR the superiority of an actual half-hundred +3 arrows, as opposed to those made with a GMW spell.