Mustrum_Ridcully
Legend
Well, D&D is videogamey, or so I heard...KKDragonLord said:
Magic Items and their resale value
- Thread starter guindone
- Start date
KKDragonLord said:
Why not? You have a better example of something that many people can relate to to prove/disprove the 20% model.
Used Cars? The cars I have traded in were pretty much driven into the ground but I'm guessing if the lot did resell them I got less than 20% of what they sold for.
Pawn Shops? Massive markups.
I originally used the video game example in the previous thread because I had traded the game in less than 48 hours before I made the post talking about it so all of the details were very fresh in my mind. The question had come up where 20% worked as a business model in real life. I gave them an answer from my recent experience.
For how many people are magic i items useful? And when they are, how useful are they?
For a normal merchant, a +1 magic sword is just a little bit better than a normal sword. But now the +1 bonus is everything you need when you are faced with life-threatening dangers 4-5 times a day. You need every little help you can get.
Besides rich people(nobles and merchants) and adventurers, almost anyone would see a great need to have a weapon Even less a magic one. Add this to implements, armor, and other tibits of magical stuff.
And there is the mechanical reason. If you sell a +3 magic sword, you buy a +2 f lamming wand. You lose 4/5 of money, but in game terms, you lose a plus. Think this way, you have to lose something to choose your item instead of using the "random" one you take from the old tomb. It costs a "item tier". One item tier is exactly 1/5 of its cost.
For a normal merchant, a +1 magic sword is just a little bit better than a normal sword. But now the +1 bonus is everything you need when you are faced with life-threatening dangers 4-5 times a day. You need every little help you can get.
Besides rich people(nobles and merchants) and adventurers, almost anyone would see a great need to have a weapon Even less a magic one. Add this to implements, armor, and other tibits of magical stuff.
And there is the mechanical reason. If you sell a +3 magic sword, you buy a +2 f lamming wand. You lose 4/5 of money, but in game terms, you lose a plus. Think this way, you have to lose something to choose your item instead of using the "random" one you take from the old tomb. It costs a "item tier". One item tier is exactly 1/5 of its cost.
reezel said:
Exactly. Demand for most magic items is low. Supply likewise, meaning the number of magic item "dealers" will be vanishingly small. And this is in a medieval world where you can't blithely trot around the countryside looking for buyers; every time you have to venture out of Point-of-Light A and make your way to Point-of-Light B, you incur a hefty cost to provide yourself with security. There is no eBay in D&D.
Under those circumstances, 20% is quite reasonable, even generous.
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frankthedm
First Post
Actually most rulers would be demanding the magic items. Mind you they would be demanding them rather than paying for them them.Dausuul said:
Blackeagle
First Post
pming said:
To quote from Darth and Droids, "Any GM worth his salt knows that shopkeepers must always be retired adventurers with oodles of levels in martial arts or the Jewelled Sword of Hacking Impertinent Hagglers to Bits under their counter."
blackeagle said:
Yeah, that's another point. When your primary market consists of "people who make a living out of killing other sentient beings and taking their stuff," you have to be a pretty tough guy to become a magic item dealer. Which reduces the number of professional dealers even further.
KidSnide
Adventurer
The 20% rule makes a lot of sense in a world where adventurers are not that common.
I always figured that most magic items were "made to order", which is why they cost 20-40% over their material cost. After all, in the real world, clothing, weapons and armor was all made to order. It would be strange to find a suit of chainmail hanging in some armor-markers workshop unless it was being made for someone. It's not like there would be department stores (or - really - stores of any kind) in a typical D&D economy. You just find the relevant craftsman and commission what you want.
As such, there isn't a big stock of magic items lying around. Either someone who wants one is using it, or someone who makes magic items has turned into more useful residium. Also, not many items are bought or sold. Adventurers are unusual in that they level up enough and find enough new magic items that they try to "trade up" by selling old magic items to buy new ones.
That's why the default price for magic items is their value as raw materials. You're not trying to find someone who would use the magic item; you're selling it to someone can carve it up. Of course, some merchants might try to find other warriors or spellcasters (adventurers or not) who need the items, but that's pretty complicated -- and in any case the merchant's risk -- so D&D makes the simplifying assumption that they buy from adventurers at about the same price.
I always figured that most magic items were "made to order", which is why they cost 20-40% over their material cost. After all, in the real world, clothing, weapons and armor was all made to order. It would be strange to find a suit of chainmail hanging in some armor-markers workshop unless it was being made for someone. It's not like there would be department stores (or - really - stores of any kind) in a typical D&D economy. You just find the relevant craftsman and commission what you want.
As such, there isn't a big stock of magic items lying around. Either someone who wants one is using it, or someone who makes magic items has turned into more useful residium. Also, not many items are bought or sold. Adventurers are unusual in that they level up enough and find enough new magic items that they try to "trade up" by selling old magic items to buy new ones.
That's why the default price for magic items is their value as raw materials. You're not trying to find someone who would use the magic item; you're selling it to someone can carve it up. Of course, some merchants might try to find other warriors or spellcasters (adventurers or not) who need the items, but that's pretty complicated -- and in any case the merchant's risk -- so D&D makes the simplifying assumption that they buy from adventurers at about the same price.
20% is very reasonable. For 3E I use 30% (which is what is suggested in a few sources including Age of Worms campaign) and adjust that based on a number of factors. Things over 5k will be worth less as they're less likely to sell. Commodity items like a cure light wounds item are worth significantly more than 30%, potentially up to 95%. A potion of cure disease in a time of plague could be worth 500%. Town heroes will also get consideration, although more for buying that for selling.
The fact of the matter is that if the PCs don't think their necklace of fireballs is worth keeping around because it might blow up on them, why would any other adventurer buy it?
The fact of the matter is that if the PCs don't think their necklace of fireballs is worth keeping around because it might blow up on them, why would any other adventurer buy it?
