Magic Items and their resale value

[Ridley's Cohort]

As long as the DM is not purposefully malicious about it, I would not have a problem with the occasional cursed or otherwise defective item to be part of a bargain price. Used cars can be lemons.

Having the right social skills and connections could reduce this risk, but not necessarily eliminate it.

 

[Rykion]

As has been mentioned, there are few places in the real world where you can resell an item for better than maybe a 1/4 of the value you paid for it. This even applies to items like jewelry and videogames which have very long lifetimes even when used. If a player really wants more, I might let them spend 6 months finding a buyer who will pay half the value. I'll just deduct the extra amount from the treasure the party finds.

 

[Xyl]

As has been mentioned, there are few places in the real world where you can resell an item for better than maybe a 1/4 of the value you paid for it. This even applies to items like jewelry and videogames which have very long lifetimes even when used. If a player really wants more, I might let them spend 6 months finding a buyer who will pay half the value. I'll just deduct the extra amount from the treasure the party finds.

If the player wants to, I will let them spend 6 months finding a buyer who will 100% of book value, confident that in the fact that by the time the transaction completes the party will be so much higher level that the amount they gained is now irrelevant.

Keep in mind that the 20% figure is for selling the item now, to the next merchant you meet, who probably doesn't specialize in magic items. He's taking it in the hope that he can find a buyer, or sell it to another merchant who can find a buyer.

 

[Blackeagle]

I would just like to say thank you for leading me to that comic. You have officially ruined any productivity I would've had for the rest of the day.

You're welcome.

And if you want to ruin your productivity tomorrow too, check out DM of the Rings. It was the original inspiration for Darth and Droids. It's basically the same thing (screencap comic) except for Lord of the Rings, rather than Star Wars.

 

[Ulthwithian]

Interesting discussion (like the older one). I might point out to Ridley that if you are speaking to a merchant, he gives you X money for a Magic sword, and then you want to spend X money on some other item that that merchant has... didn't you just revert to a barter system? And, if so, why exchange money at all in that case?

Here's a problem for you guys as well.

'A merchant buys a magic sword for 500gp right now. He can sell it for 2500gp in 6 months. The sword has operating costs of 30gp/month (security, etc.). What's his rate of return?'

 

[Intense_Interest]

Depends how much magic is floating around. Depends on how flexible you are about what to buy.

In a world like Forgotten Realms it is pretty obvious that the "one in a million" opportunity could happen every day in a big city.

Yes, if I want a very specific item like a +2 Goblin Bane Frost pickaxe this afternoon, one in a million is probably an overestimate. If I want "any magic cloak" or "any interesting weapon more magical than the one I have" and I am willing to spend a week or two, then these assertions of rarity do not make any sense.

Why exactly would the Merchant be in modern concept of a "sale" situation?

1- Magic item's don't have a sell-buy date and aren't shipped in at a rate that would necessitate a storage clearance, considering the supply issue of willing wizards vs. factory work.

2- Commodity Trusts are broken up in our world, while they could be strongly enforced in this one. Competition might be bought or killed outright instead of trying to advertise or drop prices (both of which could either attract stronger looters or imply weakness and therefore get you killed)

3- Spending a week searching for a good deal doesn't mean that some other guy hasn't gotten some better deal before you. Especially when the only time that a merchant would feel the need to have a fire-sale is when there is something obvious, like if they just had a fire.

4- A Merchant in a bad situation would have a better reason to sell to another merchant than guy-off-the-street, because the merchants like to band together for security rather than arm a potential looter.

5- Other than a catastrophe, the only other good sale reason I see is if you fell into a windfall of items, like getting 1,000 +1 swords. The kinds of items an adventurer would like to purchase are not as mass-produced and more made-to-order than Magical Soldier gear.

In the actual Middle Ages, there were very expensive but non-rare items in the form of armor and fine warhorses that were bought and sold. It might take some months to close the deal, but the typical cut of the middlemen was 10%-20%.

This ain't the middle ages.

Making a suit of armor back then wouldn't attract a horde of orcs, for one. Two there is a significant supply issue as blacksmiths are definably more common than powerful wizards.

And horses age and have specific upkeep concerns, magic doesn't.

 

[Raduin711]

Here's my take.

The economic system of 3.5 was 4 things.

1- Unrealistic. While a lot of folks are pointing out how unrealistic the economy of 4e is, 3e was no better.

2- Time Consuming. The process of figuring out each person's take of the treasure, and then figuring out what you wanted to buy with it, took at least an hour.

3- Against the ideals of Dungeons and Dragons. D&D is supposed to be about going on heroic adventures (often in dungeons), slaying monsters (often dragons) and finding treasure. Not buying treasure. It is many times more exciting to play a paladin who finds a holy avenger (possibly given to him by a ghost of some long-dead hero) than going to Magic-R-Us and buying one.

4- Dull, dull, dull.

I like the 4e answer.

Normal items aren't worth anything to sell. no more finding out how much you can sell 12 longswords, 11 spears, a sling, 3 boomerangs, a masterwork greatclub, etc. No more having to imagine hauling that laundry list of blood-covered garbage to a podunk town, where there always just so happens to be a trader who really gives a crap.

They encourage treasures to be found, not bought, by reducing the sale price of magic items to 1/5th.

Why 1/5th? why not 1/2? or 9/10ths? Because thats how much residuum you get from it. Think about it.

You're a merchant. Just a guy. Magic is a hot commodity. Are you going to carry a wheelbarrow full of magic weapons with you? While a few you might use yourself for protection, 12 +1 swords are not going to help much when a bunch of bandits jump you on the road. So what do you do? turn it all into residuum. It is more valuable to you this way. It is easier to carry, easier to keep secret, and in a form that any customer you encounter can use.

This also can make the process of purchasing magic more fun as well. If a merchant has some magic items that haven't been converted yet, he can conceivably sell them at a discounted price (but more than he could have sold the residuum for). Lower level merchants might have a few items he thinks he can sell (+1 longsword yes, +1 bohemian ear-spoon, no.) if the DM decides so, and the PC's are interested in role-playing the encounter. At higher levels, you could have a wonderous magical item emporium run by a steel dragon or some such with lots of discount items and have it make sense both economically, and in terms of the story, actually mean something.

 

[PeelSeel2]

I like the 1/5 value. It is realistic. I buy and sell for a living. Typically I buy items at 10-20 cents on the dollar, to what they are 'worth'.

1/5 is good generalized rule for that (actually a little high compared to modern liquidation).

I have always used something like that in all my campaigns. If the players want to sit on the item and commission a seller to get the maximum price out of the item, the transaction can take 2-4 months. They will get a lot closer to retail then.

 

[Regicide]

Even a single mid-ranged magic item costs more than a small town. The fact that there are stores where you can buy 4 of something to kit out the party is utterly laughable.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Intense_Interest,

You misunderstood my point. It is not a Merchant who would be most likely to offer the good deal. (But in the case of a really really harsh market, why not?)

It is the Owner who found/earned/stole/inherited the item who is thinking "Gee, I could take 200 for this 1000 gp item now. Or I could make a small effort and I have a good chance of getting 250. Maybe even 300."

Why should the Owner sell the item to the Merchant for 200 so that the Merchant call sell the item to the Adventurer at such a fat markup? Maybe there is an Adventurer out there who would be happy to pay twice or thrice the Merchant's standard low ball offer? Why not put the word on the street and see what happens?

Some small portion of the magic items in existence will have Owners with such incentives. Maybe that portion is 0.5%. Maybe it is higher. Maybe it is lower.

Create a high-magic world with a large enough city, and that means that every day there are some individuals with a huge incentive to go for a higher price. Not so much in smaller cities...but there is always a chance.

As for your other points, if relevant, they make strong assumptions about details in the campaign world. Hypothesize that there is a superpowerful Merchant Guild all you want, but there is nothing compelling about such handwaving.

The historical record may or may not be germane to a particular campaign, but it is immune to the charge of be "unrealistic".