D&D 5E +# magic items so much fun!

[ZombieRoboNinja]

Would it be even cooler if, as a very minor effect, the bow could fire flaming arrows? No extra damage by default, but a potentially interesting exploration tool.

And for the Drow shield mentioned, again as a very minor effect, it gave you advantage to save against blinding light? A bit more combat-based, but the flavour would be that it reflects no light, which is also potentially useful in exploration play.

That's exactly what the Minor Properties table does. As DM I'd certainly customize the minor properties of items I created to make sense; I probably wouldn't toss out randomly generated Celestial Sinister Black Dragon Armor.

 

[pemerton]

That's exactly what the Minor Properties table does.

I think too many of the quirks and origins don't indicate how they interact with action resolution. For example, Abyssal - do the nightmares disturb rest? Covetous, confident, melancholy or repllent - how exactly do the feelings that are engendered by the itme play out, mechanically?

Without some mechanical expression I feel these are very empty. And just for clarity, the mechanical expression need not be in the form of penalties; for example (and borrowing from Burning Wheel and I think also FATE) it could be some sort of bonus to the player of the character wielding the item when s/he has the character take a disadvantageous ingame action that expresses the quirk's effect on the PC.

 

[Blackwarder]

I think too many of the quirks and origins don't indicate how they interact with action resolution. For example, Abyssal - do the nightmares disturb rest? Covetous, confident, melancholy or repllent - how exactly do the feelings that are engendered by the itme play out, mechanically?

Without some mechanical expression I feel these are very empty. And just for clarity, the mechanical expression need not be in the form of penalties; for example (and borrowing from Burning Wheel and I think also FATE) it could be some sort of bonus to the player of the character wielding the item when s/he has the character take a disadvantageous ingame action that expresses the quirk's effect on the PC.

Actually I dislike the the idea of hard wired bonuses or penalties, that way instead of cool flavor and imagination hooks we get other things that will get into the spreadsheet...

I'm all in favor of leaving the tables with as few hard coded rules as possible if my players find an abyssal dagger I can use the nightmares to my liking, either as interrupting sleep for good characters, doing nothing, requiring an endurance check after every long rest, bearer of dark omens (what would you think if after months of nightmares you can remember you start remembering bits and pieces) the options are endless!

Warder

 

[slobo777]

I can use the nightmares to my liking, either as interrupting sleep for good characters, doing nothing, requiring an endurance check after every long rest, bearer of dark omens (what would you think if after months of nightmares you can remember you start remembering bits and pieces) the options are endless!

Warder

Generally as a player if I had a *minor* magic item that a DM used like this, it would get thrown away or destroyed as cursed pretty quickly. It would have to be pretty impressive to keep and put up with having "endless DM options" attached to my character, especially considering that two out of the three suggested with mechanical effect would seem to reduce my character's ability to heal or regain daily abilities.

Put me down for "prefer some mechanics". We can of course have both. The suggested mechanics could be even more optional than the open-ended backgrounds. And they don't have to be prescriptive - they could simply be suggestions to the DM about what "made from elemental fire" could mean for attunement and riders on magical abilities, just with some numbers attached to help keep the game within mechanical bounds.

 

[pemerton]

Actually I dislike the the idea of hard wired bonuses or penalties, that way instead of cool flavor and imagination hooks we get other things that will get into the spreadsheet

I don't agree.

For example, here's a possible rule:

If the player plays his PC in a way that reflects the melancholy, covetousness, etc, and that impacts on the resolution of a scene, then the GM lets the player roll a d20 and note the result. On any subsequent d20 roll, the player can substitute in the noted result rather than the result of the roll.​

That gives the melancholy, etc a real impact in play - the PC will become melancholic (at least from time to time) so that the player can eliminate some randomness from d20 rolling - but it is not the sort of thing that can be factored into a spreadsheet.

 

[Blackwarder]

Generally as a player if I had a *minor* magic item that a DM used like this, it would get thrown away or destroyed as cursed pretty quickly. It would have to be pretty impressive to keep and put up with having "endless DM options" attached to my character, especially considering that two out of the three suggested with mechanical effect would seem to reduce my character's ability to heal or regain daily abilities.

Put me down for "prefer some mechanics". We can of course have both. The suggested mechanics could be even more optional than the open-ended backgrounds. And they don't have to be prescriptive - they could simply be suggestions to the DM about what "made from elemental fire" could mean for attunement and riders on magical abilities, just with some numbers attached to help keep the game within mechanical bounds.

Considering that your character is already subjected to endless DM options I fail to see your point in your first paragraph...

I agree with your second one. Personally, I prefer no hard coded mechanics, I'd much rather have a list of suggestions that allow me to pick and choose somthing if any.

Warder

 

[Blackwarder]

I don't agree.

For example, here's a possible rule:

If the player plays his PC in a way that reflects the melancholy, covetousness, etc, and that impacts on the resolution of a scene, then the GM lets the player roll a d20 and note the result. On any subsequent d20 roll, the player can substitute in the noted result rather than the result of the roll.​

That gives the melancholy, etc a real impact in play - the PC will become melancholic (at least from time to time) so that the player can eliminate some randomness from d20 rolling - but it is not the sort of thing that can be factored into a spreadsheet.

Oh ye' of little faith of course it can be...

That way every player will want to have an abyssal item so they can store rerolls...

And btw, how exactly having a meta game bonuse (effectively picking and choosing a roll) is linked to having an abyssal item?

And what do you say to players who want to roleplay and get the same bonuse?

Somthing like that (as nice as it is) is way to restrictive IMO.

Warder

 

[slobo777]

Considering that your character is already subjected to endless DM options I fail to see your point in your first paragraph...

It's because those options are attached to something that the player can do something about, and players are constantly striving to solve and overcome problems that the DM presents in the plot. Presenting a problem attached to a minor piece of discovered equipment will resolve effectively as follows:

DM: Since gaining the sword, your character has had trouble sleeping. He is healing less well.

Player: My character throws away the sword.

(Not an actual in-game discussion I'd expect, more of a summary of discovering the source of the problem and how a player - at least myself and most players I know - would expect to resolve it)

 

[Blackwarder]

It's because those options are attached to something that the player can do something about, and players are constantly striving to solve and overcome problems that the DM presents in the plot. Presenting a problem attached to a minor piece of discovered equipment will resolve effectively as follows:

DM: Since gaining the sword, your character has had trouble sleeping. He is healing less well.

Player: My character throws away the sword.

(Not an actual in-game discussion I'd expect, more of a summary of discovering the source of the problem and how a player - at least myself and most players I know - would expect to resolve it)

Perfectly understandable, but is it so black and white? I think that it's a great plot hook, let's say that the character can't simply throw the item, now what? And what if the item in question is a +3 weapon of awesomeness? Would you try to get rid of it so quickly?

I'm not saying that there should be penalties for abyssal made weapon, but having a generic mechanic such as +2 on intimidate attempts is just bleh and having more interesting stuff would put the item in a certain bracket.

I believe that it should remain in the hands of the DM to decide to use it as he will, some DMs would just use the descriptions for favors with no impact on gameplay, while others will decide on somthing else.

I think that having suggestion in the DMG on how to interept the flavor text for the DMs and groups who would like it, I don't think that they should have hard coded mechanics.

I want magic items to be magical, mysterious and interesting, I don't want them to be just a pile of bonuses and penalties.

Warder

 

[pemerton]

That way every player will want to have an abyssal item so they can store rerolls...

But under my suggestion, to do that they also have to bring their nightmares into the game in a way that impacts the scene. Which means that they are RPing PCs who suffer from Abyssal nightmares. Which is the outcome we wanted, isn't it?

And btw, how exactly having a meta game bonuse (effectively picking and choosing a roll) is linked to having an abyssal item?

That the PC has Abyssal nightmares is linked to the item. The metagame bonus is the mechanical device to make sure the fiction takes on the desired character - that the Abyssal nightmares are more than mere colour.

And what do you say to players who want to roleplay and get the same bonuse?

Go for it? I mean, this is exactly how games like Burning Wheel and FATE work.

But we're talking about D&D, so maybe they should go hunt for Abyssal items?

Or to flip it around - if you want roleplaying to be its own reward, and don't want this sort of metagame mechanic attached to it (and that would be fair enough - I don't use these metagame mechanics in my 4e game), then what is the point of including items that give Abyssal nightmares? Let the players impose there own interpretations on things, and do their own RP.