Magic Items that Grant Feats

The most excellent Chaositech brings us the Steel Arm, for the low, low price of 30,000 gp. +2 Str with that arm, +2 general with two Steel Arms. For an additional 3,000+weapon price you can get a retractable weapon! Astound your family and friends! And it even works in an antimagic zone! Zowee!

Possible side effects may include: Hideous mutation, the decay of your other items, and irreversable insanity. Product not authorized for resale.
 

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Saeviomagy said:
Just a point - the sylvan scimitar is, I believe a +3 weapon only, and gains the additional powers ONLY when outdoors AND in a temperate climate, which would give at least a 50% discount on the price to my mind.

Not to mention the fact that you quoted the cost to create it, not the cost to buy one, but used the cost to buy the ability to price it.

At a guess, the +1d6 outdoors in temperate climes is worth at most a +1, probably less.

So - +4 weapon would be 32,000. The weapon costs 47,000, making the price of the cleave feat in very restricted situations a tidy 15,000.

Or about 30,000 if you had it all the time.

So this example just worsens your idea.

Improved grab is far better than improved grapple, because it means that you never waste a grapple attempt. In fact, there's not really much reason NOT to use improved grapple with a -20 on the roll on every single attack you ever make, and if you really want to grapple something or someone, you waste nothing trying.


Using a weapon in temperate climate a restriction? Only in harsh climates (Close to the poles or in desert like regions, temperate climate offer quite a range) would the special features not work. I would estimate a good percentage of the time characters are adventuring in temperate climates. Sure if you go into a dungeon then the cleave and an extra d6 of damage don't work, but it's still a +3 weapon. That's what I was using. I minused +3 from the price to make. I also agree that the extra d6 would be an equivilent to a +1 weapon, so then it would lower the price even more. I'm trying to create the crab arm, so I'm interested in manufacturing cost and xp costs to my character. Cleave has power attack as a prerequisit so it was a good example to use as a base.


Why do you feel that improved Grab is MORE powerful than impoved grapple. After rereading it it says that you can "use either your dex or str for grapple checks if you hit with your claw". There's actually no mention of AoO there. Improved Grapple mentions no AoO (which is what I'm looking for) AND a +4 to all grapple checks (which I really don't care about).

Also what are you refering to with the -20 to attack? I don't really understand what your talking about there.
 

From the 3.5 SRD:

IMPROVED GRAPPLE [GENERAL]

Prerequisites: Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike.

Benefit: You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you make a touch attack to start a grapple. You also gain a +4 bonus on all grapple checks, regardless of whether you started the grapple.

Normal: Without this feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity when you make a touch attack to start a grapple.

Special: A fighter may select Improved Grapple as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Improved Grab (Ex):
If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required. Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature.

The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.

A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text). When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

--------------

Okay, let's look at the differences.

Improved Grapple is a feat, with normal feat prerequisites (Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike). You cannot use the feat unless you have the prereqs or an item that bestows them. Further, it still requires an attack action to initiate a grapple - the only benefit of the feat is to eliminate the AoO allowed when making a normal grapple attempt.

Improved Grab, OTOH, is a creature ability found in the MM. It allows a creature to initiate a grapple as a free action whenever it hits with the appropriate appendage (claw, bite, tentacle, etc). Since it's not a feat, it also does not list prereqs. The one drawback is the standard requirement that it be used only against creatures at least one size category smaller.

As you can see, Improved Grab is superior to Improved Grapple in a number of ways. To use Improved Grapple, the character wielding the claw will have to have a Dex score of 13+ and the feat Improved Unarmed Strike. If the wielder lacks either of these (for instance, if he's taken ability damage to Dex), then he can't use Improved Grapple. Further, it still requires an attack action to initiate the grapple. It's not a free action.

From what you've said, it sounds like Improved Grab fits your concept better. Unfortunately, no GM in his right mind is going to allow it. I'd consider allowing Improved Grapple (and even Improved Unarmed Strike) with the weapon, but it would be costly to have both feats - and your character will still have to meet the Dex requirement.

Finally, see the highlighted passage under Improved Grab for an explanation of the -20 grapple penalty others have referred to. It's critically important when facing enemies who can take advantage of an opponent who's lost his Dex bonus, e.g., rogues. Otherwise, it's probably not a big deal. Unless your character will have significant bonuses to his grapple checks, I doubt you'll choose to take the -20 penalty.
 

Dareoon Dalandrove said:
Using a weapon in temperate climate a restriction?

Well, just about anything that restricts an item's use can qualify for a discount, but this is up to the GM, not the player. There are guidelines in the core books, but no hard and fast rules. Each campaign is unique and only the GM can determine what a limitation is worth (if anything).

Also, all restrictions are taken together to decide what discount to apply - you don't apply a separate discount for each restriction.
 

Thanks for the insight! I was just going by some the monster attack descriptions for improved grab and it didn't mention most of what you posted. While you are right Improved Grab would be so much cooler (I can imagine my character hoisting opponents up with the claw arm and smashing others with my club) I really don't need all of it. The real basics of what I'd like are to use the claw to snap weapons and attack foes (clamping down on them and crushing) with out the AoO. Maybe I'm thinking too much about it, and I could just use it as a weapon (the clamping action being the attack and doing bludgeoning dmg). Or if the Claw arm functioned while I was grappling I could maintain a grapple and Crush (constrict) with it.
 

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