magic missile always hits again???

[DracoSuave]

Yeah. I know. But when someone can read 'it automatically hits' that's one more 'Does Magic Missile trigger ______?' thread.

I normally wouldn't care, but overuse of the colloquial 'hit' has already lead to 'But it hits!' blah blah blah-ery that can be avoided with use of precise language in this case.

 

[Pbartender]

Yeah. I know. But when someone can read 'it automatically hits' that's one more 'Does Magic Missile trigger ______?' thread.

I normally wouldn't care, but overuse of the colloquial 'hit' has already lead to 'But it hits!' blah blah blah-ery that can be avoided with use of precise language in this case.

Right... Technically, it doesn't hit, it simply has an effect that deals damage.

 

[Scribble]

It has some very effective niche uses. But here's the thing to love most about the new magic missile from my perspective:

You don't need to roll to hit.

At the table, this makes you feel powerful.

This is all it takes to make you feel powerful? Man you're easy to please... Does Velcro give you the same kick?

Mooohoohahaha I am lord of tying shoes with little to no effort! Moohahahahaha ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

 

[I'm A Banana]

This is all it takes to make you feel powerful? Man you're easy to please... Does Velcro give you the same kick?

Mooohoohahaha I am lord of tying shoes with little to no effort! Moohahahahaha ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

When I was just learning to tie my shoes, you bet it did. Plus, it made a cool ripping sound!

I bet people who are (a) just learning the D&D rules or who (b) don't care to learn the D&D rules in much detail feel the same way about Magic Missile.

"I wanna kill that guy!"
"Okay, make a roll to see if you can."
*roll*
"Oooh, you missed."
""

"I wanna kill that guy with Magic Missile!"
"Okay. You do."
""

It's far simpler and infinitely more satisfying.

 

[Scribble]

p.s. I forgot to add a smiley- so hopefully you caught that as friendly teasing- and not me really knocking you.

 

[Destil]

Another thing that was kind of alluded to but not stated clearly was that the higher the target's defenses are, the more effective it is, relatively. Against a monster 10 levels higher (just for an extreme example), the wizard will likely be out DPRing the strikers. Even though I'm not defining that curve mathematically, it does exist, and there is a use for it.

So, the main selling point is 'The more you suck the better it looks in contrast?'

... yeah.

 

[Felon]

It has some very effective niche uses. But here's the thing to love most about the new magic missile from my perspective:

You don't need to roll to hit.

At the table, this makes you feel powerful. You can simply decree something. No roll to succeed. No DM saying "Ah, but...!". No chance to fail and look like a gimp

You just do it. It just works. It might not do much, but it does it all the time. No one can take it away from you.

Who needs those wild rollercoasters when you can have a nice, safe merry-go-rounds, eh?

All this talk about looking like a gimp and people taking things away from you sounds kinda unhealthy. The implication here is that it's preferrable to do something weak with consistency than something potent that invites a chance of failure. Seems to me that logic only works if fear of failure outweighs the desire for success. And in most games and contests, that tends to spell doom from the get-go.

That is awesome, memorable, and cool. It is something you'll note during character creation, and talk about afterwards. That's what keeps you coming back to D&D. That's what makes it good game design. That's why it's great to see WotC returning to it, to embrace the lessons learned from the previous 30 frickin' years of the game, refined through a new generation.

OK, I think I've found our candidate for "Most Hyperbolic Post of the Week". ;P

 

[I'm A Banana]

All this talk about looking like a gimp and people taking things away from you sounds kinda unhealthy. The implication here is that it's preferrable to do something weak with consistency than something potent that invites a chance of failure. Seems to me that logic only works if fear of failure outweighs the desire for success. And in most games and contests, that tends to spell doom from the get-go.

Especially when you're starting out, you need to have a "safe space to fail into." Magic Missile without an attack roll is part of that safe space. You can keep playing, you can keep enjoying your friends' company, and you don't have to worry about failing too badly. You always have Magic Missile to rely on.

Because when you miss an attack roll and blow your turn, it sucks. Mature, skilled players get over it pretty fast and onto the next thing, but newbies care more, and casual players don't care at all. For the former, having a minor ability that doesn't rely on attack rolls makes them feel like they're contributing, even if they know they can contribute more by taking a risk. For the latter, it gives them an easy way to opt out of a lot of the rules (everything revolving around attack bonuses and to-hit rolls) and just not think about it this turn, even if they know they can engage the system a little more and make a bigger impression. Even for mature, skilled players, it can be a useful thing to be able to turn off rules complexity and just friggin' hit the thing already (we've all had those nights where the dice seem to go against us).

There's still risk, because 99% of your actions are still risky. This just gives you the option of going on the merry-go-round if the roller coaster isn't your thing at the moment. Sometimes, if you're new to it, or if you're not that into it, it's useful to be able to take the path of least resistance.

OK, I think I've found our candidate for "Most Hyperbolic Post of the Week". ;P

Pfft. That's nothing. That's just saying Magic Missile had good design before 4e decided to change it. If you want to see some REAL hyperbole, lets talk about the collectible element in Gamma World, and I'll tell you how it's putting people in rehab or something.

 

[Mapache]

What core rules did they have to rewrite?

They reworded a handful of magic items and feats to read "bonus to damage roll" (something they should have done anyway for consistency), but they never changed any core rules for the benefit or detriment of the new Magic Missile.

Attacks without attack rolls required rules changes to actually work. Technically, they came into existence a few months before the Magic Missile change when Dragon printed that terrible level 3 Wizard Encounter Power that's auto-damage, but no one cared about it because no one ever took it. The rules change itself has caused some issues—for instance, combined with the new limit on Free Action attacks, it means that Essentials Scout Rangers don't actually work as written, because both their Power Strike and their I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Twin-Strike are "Attack Powers", and thus they can't use both of them in the same turn, which is clearly not authorial intent.

 

[DracoSuave]

The rules change itself has caused some issues—for instance, combined with the new limit on Free Action attacks, it means that Essentials Scout Rangers don't actually work as written, because both their Power Strike and their I-Can't-Believe-It's-Not-Twin-Strike are "Attack Powers", and thus they can't use both of them in the same turn, which is clearly not authorial intent.

The limit to Free Action attacks applies to attacks granted as a free action, which is like Commander's Strike and whatever. They have the form 'Gains a basic attack as a free action' which is what that rule applies to.

Using attack powers that are free actions is not being granted an attack as a free action, you're simply using a power. It does not grant you an attack.