darkrose50
First Post
Expectations for the post:
1. I don’t want to hear about how you hate economics, and are fine with gold as equipment points. This is a discussion about people who want to do things with gold other than buy equipment, and not be penalized. This is a post about people who want to have the choice to sell a magical item for anything other than 20% of its crafting value.
2. Do not tell me what I think is fun, or not.
3. Contribute.
Preemptive counter arguments:
1. Economic rules do not need to be complicated to be more realistic than magical items sell for 20%.
2. One would not need to role-play economics.
3. You don’t have to make selling magical items suck as an option to make magical items cool.
4. Removing the wealth cap will not make all characters bazillionairs.
5. Characters have choices, and having a marketable non-adventuring skill is a choice. It is okay for one character to be more capable in one area, including economics, than another. Just like it is okay for one character to have a higher strength than another.
6. You did not read the rules. You can use an action point to attune an item immediately.
7. Economics is part of being human. Even our mating rituals have economics in there. Take for example an engagement ring. It is exiting because it is expensive. Part of the human mating ritual is the male using up economic resources on exciting things to impress the female (diner, dancing, jewelry, movies, flowers, presents). Dating and the mating ritual sure is exiting. If economics are such a large part of our mating ritual, why cant they be a part of magical items?
8. Buying things are exiting. Ever buy a house, or go to a home warming party? People dig spending money on crap.
-----Okay now on with the show-----
Magical item game balance that does not muck with economics
4E economics as it stands
o Gold pieces act like equipment points.
o Gold pieces (equipment points) will primarily be spent on magical items.
o Limit gold, and in doing so limit a characters access to buying magical items (power).
o There is no economy. Gold pieces are reward points that are spent on magical items.
o Every character should have X gold pieces in equipment (magical items) at Y level.
o Every character should get a full share, and end up with the same amount of gold pieces to spend on magical items.
o You can trade in a found magical item for a magical item that is one level lower in power.
o There are no crafting rules. Crafting would mean that crafters would have the possibility of making more gold than non-crafters. More gold would mean more magical items, and in turn would mean more power.
Cons
o Thinking economically is punished. Intelligent economic thought dealing with problem solving, social interaction, and meeting supply and demand is punished.
o Spending gold on anything but equipment (emphasis on magical items) is punished.
o Everything the character sells, sells for 20% of the crafting cost regardless of a characters charisma or diplomacy. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o One can not craft anything, and make a profit. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o One can not provide a service, and make a profit. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o One can not act as a middle man, and make a profit. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o One can not trade a level 3 magical item for a level 3 magical item. One must trade five level 3 magical items for one level 3 magical item. It does not mater what the characters charisma or diplomacy happens to be. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o Using a skill challenge to interact with the economy may end up with a character with a higher share of the gold than the rest of the party. [I know that if I did the all the work, than I would want all of the gold].
Proposed fix
o Place a limit on the amount of magical items that a character can make use of at a given time at a given level.
o Limit magical items attuned by gold piece value to craft, or by level.
o Not everyone has the stuff (level) to attune to all magical items.
o It naturally takes a week for a magical item to attune to a character.
o One can still equip, and wear a magical item that is not attuned, but one cannot use any of the magical effects unless, or until, it is attuned.
o One may spend an action point at-will as a free action to attune a magical item immediately. One may do so a number of times per week equal to the better of a characters constitution or wisdom bonus (minimum 1).
o One may un-attune to a magical item at-will as a free action.
o Potions, scrolls, and one shots approved by the DM do not need to be attuned.
o Remove the selling items for 20% of the crafting cost rule.
o Allow skill challenges with economic rewards for individual characters without worrying about gold balance (magical item power) between player characters.
o Allow crafting, merchant activity, and selling of services.
o All of the above cons vanish.
New cons
o Now you need to tally up gold value (or level value) of magical items equipped, and attuned.
o Now players see a gold value (or level value) of magical items that they can equip (and make use of the magical bits) at there maximum.
o Some may freak out because they are not at there maximum, and may feel underpowered.
o Some may freak out because there is a visible game balance value that limits them (just like hit points, and other such rules).
o Some players may end up with more gold than others.
1. I don’t want to hear about how you hate economics, and are fine with gold as equipment points. This is a discussion about people who want to do things with gold other than buy equipment, and not be penalized. This is a post about people who want to have the choice to sell a magical item for anything other than 20% of its crafting value.
2. Do not tell me what I think is fun, or not.
3. Contribute.
Preemptive counter arguments:
1. Economic rules do not need to be complicated to be more realistic than magical items sell for 20%.
2. One would not need to role-play economics.
3. You don’t have to make selling magical items suck as an option to make magical items cool.
4. Removing the wealth cap will not make all characters bazillionairs.
5. Characters have choices, and having a marketable non-adventuring skill is a choice. It is okay for one character to be more capable in one area, including economics, than another. Just like it is okay for one character to have a higher strength than another.
6. You did not read the rules. You can use an action point to attune an item immediately.
7. Economics is part of being human. Even our mating rituals have economics in there. Take for example an engagement ring. It is exiting because it is expensive. Part of the human mating ritual is the male using up economic resources on exciting things to impress the female (diner, dancing, jewelry, movies, flowers, presents). Dating and the mating ritual sure is exiting. If economics are such a large part of our mating ritual, why cant they be a part of magical items?
8. Buying things are exiting. Ever buy a house, or go to a home warming party? People dig spending money on crap.
-----Okay now on with the show-----
Magical item game balance that does not muck with economics
4E economics as it stands
o Gold pieces act like equipment points.
o Gold pieces (equipment points) will primarily be spent on magical items.
o Limit gold, and in doing so limit a characters access to buying magical items (power).
o There is no economy. Gold pieces are reward points that are spent on magical items.
o Every character should have X gold pieces in equipment (magical items) at Y level.
o Every character should get a full share, and end up with the same amount of gold pieces to spend on magical items.
o You can trade in a found magical item for a magical item that is one level lower in power.
o There are no crafting rules. Crafting would mean that crafters would have the possibility of making more gold than non-crafters. More gold would mean more magical items, and in turn would mean more power.
Cons
o Thinking economically is punished. Intelligent economic thought dealing with problem solving, social interaction, and meeting supply and demand is punished.
o Spending gold on anything but equipment (emphasis on magical items) is punished.
o Everything the character sells, sells for 20% of the crafting cost regardless of a characters charisma or diplomacy. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o One can not craft anything, and make a profit. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o One can not provide a service, and make a profit. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o One can not act as a middle man, and make a profit. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o One can not trade a level 3 magical item for a level 3 magical item. One must trade five level 3 magical items for one level 3 magical item. It does not mater what the characters charisma or diplomacy happens to be. This could be fixed with a skill challenge (see below for the problems inherit in doing so).
o Using a skill challenge to interact with the economy may end up with a character with a higher share of the gold than the rest of the party. [I know that if I did the all the work, than I would want all of the gold].
Proposed fix
o Place a limit on the amount of magical items that a character can make use of at a given time at a given level.
o Limit magical items attuned by gold piece value to craft, or by level.
o Not everyone has the stuff (level) to attune to all magical items.
o It naturally takes a week for a magical item to attune to a character.
o One can still equip, and wear a magical item that is not attuned, but one cannot use any of the magical effects unless, or until, it is attuned.
o One may spend an action point at-will as a free action to attune a magical item immediately. One may do so a number of times per week equal to the better of a characters constitution or wisdom bonus (minimum 1).
o One may un-attune to a magical item at-will as a free action.
o Potions, scrolls, and one shots approved by the DM do not need to be attuned.
o Remove the selling items for 20% of the crafting cost rule.
o Allow skill challenges with economic rewards for individual characters without worrying about gold balance (magical item power) between player characters.
o Allow crafting, merchant activity, and selling of services.
o All of the above cons vanish.
New cons
o Now you need to tally up gold value (or level value) of magical items equipped, and attuned.
o Now players see a gold value (or level value) of magical items that they can equip (and make use of the magical bits) at there maximum.
o Some may freak out because they are not at there maximum, and may feel underpowered.
o Some may freak out because there is a visible game balance value that limits them (just like hit points, and other such rules).
o Some players may end up with more gold than others.
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