D&D 5E Making Goliaths More Mechanically Appealing

[delphonso]

A few monsters have an ability that compound on grappling. Since Goliaths are big, I think it'd be reasonable to have something like:

Once per short rest, when a Goliath makes a successful attack, the target must make a strength saving throw or be knocked prone (or be grappled, maybe)

 

[gyor]

I don't think this is the "who cares about Goliaths anyway?" thread. That said, rebranding wouldn't hurt.

Back to the topic at hand though, any thoughts on giant type sub abilities. something that plays on the different possible giant heritage?

Putting those two ideas together - names for the different heritages. Frost Giant Goliath = Jotun, etc

Part stone giant is just one possible origin for Goliaths, there is also the Earth Genasi possible origin and others.

 

[cbwjm]

My only thought was to make stone's endurance scale like the monk's deflect missiles. That is, it adds the goliath's level to the damage reduction.

 

[TiwazTyrsfist]

Here's my suggestion to take Goliath from a race with minor powers that is mechanically only mildly interesting (Fluff wise, very interesting IMO, one of my favorite AL characters is a Goliath Diviner), and warping them all the way to having 10,000 forum threads titled "ZomG Goliaths are so brokenly over powered!!!one!"

Step 1: Remove "Powerful Build"
Step 2: Change "Size" to "Large"
Step 3: Done

Now they have reach
Now they use larger weapons
Now they interact with Small Size characters in new and fun ways

"But but but but but Having LARGE SIZE Pcs unbalances the GAAAAAAME!!!!"

No it doesn't. OR Too Bad. Or SHUT UP D&D is a cooperative game. Take your pick.

"But if you make them that good then people will only play Goliaths!"

No, You're wrong. If that were true people would currently only play Drow because they get way to much free magic and super magic eye-sight. Or people would only play Variant humans with Polearm mastery. Neither of those is true, so clearly it's okay for a race to be a bit imba.

Anyway, that's my 2 cents

 

[TiwazTyrsfist]

My only thought was to make stone's endurance scale like the monk's deflect missiles. That is, it adds the goliath's level to the damage reduction.

Conversely, make it scale like a Cantrip.
Lvl 1 1d12 + Con
Lvl 5 2d12 + Con
Lvl 11 3d12 + Con
Lvl 17 4d12 + Con

This keeps it functional at higher levels and is perfectly in line with Dragonborn's Breath Weapon feature.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah I think that's fair.



I think these all look OK, though I wouldn't do them all.

Instinctively I think Stone's Endurance is the most key ability, so focusing on that makes more sense to me. I'd tend to increase the number of uses (twice per short rest?), or go with damage reduction as follows: "bludgeoning, piercing, and slashing damage that you take from nonmagical weapons is reduced by 2."

That is certainly the easiest way to go, and works really well. Heck, my idea below to let the player swap Con for Wisdom wouldn’t feel as weird if Stones Endurance is beefed up like that.

Another possibility, which could be overpowered, is to let them carry one two-handed weapon in a single hand - though not one in each hand.

Being able to go sword and board with a great sword is strong, but I like it. Makes me think of the Toblaki from the Malazan novels.

Someone in the other thread suggested letting them use the higher damage die when using a versatile weapon one-handed?

I like it, but I think I’d rather go with increased athleticism and endurance? Partly because I don’t like having too much incentive with a race to use a particular type of fighting, and Goliaths already have nothing to support being a caster except decent Con.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I think the best way is to improve Stone's Endurance.

I've got a few different ideas.

My first thought is to increase the number of times you can use it. Once per short rest is what they currently get, maybe change it to half proficiency per short rest. So, at higher levels it can be 3 times per short rest. Heck, might not even be to broken to just go straight to prof per short rest.... probably a little broken.

And, I think I like that more than making it prevent more.

Also, while resistance is going to do better some of the time, at low levels it is completely worse. 1d12+3/4 is going to average about 9, but it can easily do more. And, before level 5 getting hit for 18 damage in a single blow is pretty devastating. And, it isn't going to happen often, which is going to make the roll less valuable.

Though, getting the minimum sucks, so maybe add in a floor to the ability. It can't prevent less damage than your level? This does take it over past early levels, but it feels decent to me.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think the best way is to improve Stone's Endurance.

I've got a few different ideas.

My first thought is to increase the number of times you can use it. Once per short rest is what they currently get, maybe change it to half proficiency per short rest. So, at higher levels it can be 3 times per short rest. Heck, might not even be to broken to just go straight to prof per short rest.... probably a little broken.

And, I think I like that more than making it prevent more.

Also, while resistance is going to do better some of the time, at low levels it is completely worse. 1d12+3/4 is going to average about 9, but it can easily do more. And, before level 5 getting hit for 18 damage in a single blow is pretty devastating. And, it isn't going to happen often, which is going to make the roll less valuable.

Though, getting the minimum sucks, so maybe add in a floor to the ability. It can't prevent less damage than your level? This does take it over past early levels, but it feels decent to me.

How about making it 2d6 to improve the average, and/or making it “higher of XdY or your level, plus your con modifier”?

 

[Chaosmancer]

How about making it 2d6 to improve the average, and/or making it “higher of XdY or your level, plus your con modifier”?

I like it.

Level + Con mod fits in with the way the Aasimar abilities work off of level, but at low levels you can roll and see if it is better. 2d6 + con is definetly better without overpowering it, and prevents the minimum problem. Which is really the biggest problem with the ability, the fact you could roll a 1 and essentially "waste" it.

 

[generic]

I agree with the posters who have proposed that we should focus on Stone's Endurance. Another improvement could be making Powerful Build(?) better for tables which don't use endurance or pushing/carrying rules very often.