D&D 5E Making Prepared-Spell Casters Into Known-Spell Casters (+)

[DND_Reborn]

All the discussion/debate about Spell Versatility brought me back to an idea I had about a year ago: What if all casters only had known spells?

First, I know a lot of people like the prepared spell mechanic. If you are one of those people, please help in this discussion but the goal is not to debate which mechanic is better, etc. but to find a balanced way to make all spell-casters use known spells. If you participate, I respectfully ask you to keep that goal in mind. Thank you. FWIW, I grew up on AD&D so I am used to it and like it, but I think in the future of D&D it will probably vanish. I could be wrong...

Most importantly, every class adds their spellcasting ability modifier (minimum 1) to the number shown on the table below.

DESIGN NOTES:

This is a bit of a nerf to Bards at lower levels since, even with their CHA modifier added in, they really won't gain more spells than RAW until tiers 3 and 4. I am not sure if I want to single Bards out and give them a bit more known spells, especially since they do gain up to 13 more by 20th level. Since Bards are also considered by many one of the stronger classes overall, I don't think keeping them more in check at lower levels is bad necessarily. Please, Bard lovers, open this for discussion if you feel there should be more for Bards! Thanks.

Bard's Magical Secrets adds those spells to the Bard's Spell List. If the Bard swaps one out for another bard spell, they can swap it back to the original magical secret spell. You cannot use Magical Secrets to gain other spells from other spell lists.

The spell known by Warlocks at levels 11, 13, 15, and 17 are their Mystic Arcanum. I considered having them not count as known spells (as RAW) but then Warlocks could have up to 29 known spells effectively (25 of levels 1-5 plus the 4 Mystic Arcanum). Is this too much? Warlock players, let me know your thoughts.

I've included an Alternative Wizard option for people who think 40+ known spells is too many for Wizard. Since they can current learn 44 at a bare minimum by level 20, I don't think this is too much, but I can understand how others feel it might be too high.

Also, the concept of the Wizard's spellbook should only be used for Ritual Casting spells if this concept is adopted IMO.

So, thoughts any one?

 

[BlivetWidget]

To me, it seems like a solution without a problem. Prepared casters in your system are trading the ability to plan ahead with having more options than usual in the moment. I don't think it's bad per se, but you haven't explained what you're trying to accomplish with such a change.

 

[DND_Reborn]

To me, it seems like a solution without a problem. Prepared casters in your system are trading the ability to plan ahead with having more options than usual in the moment. I don't think it's bad per se, but you haven't explained what you're trying to accomplish with such a change.

In short, it would negate the issue with Spell Versatility. As it stands with the new material coming out, Wizards are the only casters who have to lug around their spell-supply (i.e. spellbook) with them and thus are the only casters without access to their entire spell list after completing a short rest.

This idea makes them (and others) into known casters as well, so every class has access to their complete spell list.

I don't know if you followed the other threads, but in one post I showed how my 12th level Wizard with 84 learned spells from levels 1-6 has access to less spells than every other full caster with this new Spell Versatility feature. For a class that is often touted around as being known for its versatility, this is not good.

Hopefully that explains my intent more. As a "bug", it is also because IME most tables have prepared spell casters rarely changing more than 1-2 spells after a long rest, anyway.

Thanks for your interest.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

This seems like a lot of work when simpler approaches would work better. Presumably the situation prior to Tasha's did not concern you so why not ban Tasha's? or just ban spell versatility? If you do not want to ban anything then simply allow the wizard to have more spells in their spellbook as part of the levelling process. Say 12 at first and 4 per level afterwards, or 6 per level? Or make copying from scrolls easier and cheaper and give more scrolls as treasure.

 

[DND_Reborn]

This seems like a lot of work when simpler approaches would work better. Presumably the situation prior to Tasha's did not concern you so why not ban Tasha's? or just ban spell versatility? If you do not want to ban anything then simply allow the wizard to have more spells in their spellbook as part of the levelling process. Say 12 at first and 4 per level afterwards, or 6 per level? Or make copying from scrolls easier and cheaper and give more scrolls as treasure.

Well, first, as I stated in the OP this was an idea I've had for about a year or so, not just because of the new material in Tasha's book. So, it has been a concern for other reasons. A larger part is the exchanging of spells by prepared casters is uncommon except just a one or two at a time. The long rest feature of Spell Versatility can handle that little bit of exchanging nice provided all casters get access to their spell lists.

Of course, DM fiat can also take care of spell access, even houserule the cost away so gold isn't a factor, but I would rather the rules support things instead of DM fiat.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

It still seems to me that is a problem best solved by letting the wizard have more spells in their book than by changing casters to the same mechanic. I have seen a nice suggestion in the other thread.

Allow wizards to swap a prepared spell on a short rest. They suggested up to proficiency level. In my view one could also tie it to the Arcane recovery feature. That is when a wizard does arcane recovery they can swap prepared spells of the levels recovered. I would go this way as it seems to me more wizardly the approach you are taking.

 

[DND_Reborn]

It still seems to me that is a problem best solved by letting the wizard have more spells in their book than by changing casters to the same mechanic. I have seen a nice suggestion in the other thread.

Allow wizards to swap a prepared spell on a short rest. They suggested up to proficiency level. In my view one could also tie it to the Arcane recovery feature. That is when a wizard does arcane recovery they can swap prepared spells of the levels recovered. I would go this way as it seems to me more wizardly the approach you are taking.

This still does not solve the issue of wizards being the only class without full access to their entire spell list, as every other caster can if Spell Versatility is being accepted--which many people seem to favor.

Anyway, how does it look from a balance perspective across the classes?

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Well I am not a fan of the direction you are taking this so I will bow out of the conversation here.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Well I am not a fan of the direction you are taking this so I will bow out of the conversation here.

No worries. Thanks for your interest. See ya around.

 

[Lanefan]

This still does not solve the issue of wizards being the only class without full access to their entire spell list, as every other caster can if Spell Versatility is being accepted--which many people seem to favor.

Question: when you say, as an example from your chart above, that a Wizard has access to 14 spells at 7th level, is that 14 spells in total across spell levels 1-4, or 14 spells per spell level?

If the former, it's too harsh on all casters IMO and extremely harsh on low-level Clerics. If the latter, it's probably too easy but I could be talked into thinking it's fine provided their castable-slots-by-level-per-day is kept in check.