D&D 5E Making Prepared-Spell Casters Into Known-Spell Casters (+)

[DND_Reborn]

Question: when you say, as an example from your chart above, that a Wizard has access to 14 spells at 7th level, is that 14 spells in total across spell levels 1-4, or 14 spells per spell level?

If the former, it's too harsh on all casters IMO and extremely harsh on low-level Clerics. If the latter, it's probably too easy but I could be talked into thinking it's fine provided their castable-slots-by-level-per-day is kept in check.

It is in total, but includes their spellcasting ability modifier. So, a Wizard 7 with INT 16 would know 17 spells total, not 14.

A Cleric 4 with WIS 16 would know 7 spells (incidentally the same number they could have prepared RAW). Since you can swap them out on a long rest, it puts all casters on an equal footing now.

A Cleric 7 with WIS 16 would have 13 spells (or 3 more than the prepared caster, so more options).

I don't think this really hurts anything since IME most prepared casters don't swap out spells often.

 

[BlivetWidget]

I don't know if you followed the other threads, but in one post I showed how my 12th level Wizard with 84 learned spells from levels 1-6 has access to less spells than every other full caster with this new Spell Versatility feature. For a class that is often touted around as being known for its versatility, this is not good.

If it solves the problem for your group, go for it. I don't think it breaks anything mechanically, just thematically.

84 spells by level 12 is quite good - kudos to the DM. IMO the problem with the wizard rules is that it's extremely dependent on DM generosity for spells learned. You get 2 per level and an entire subset of rules and features about learning more spells, but in the end, you are completely dependent on the DM giving you resources to actually make use of that feature. I don't play AL, but I'm given to understand that the anemic loot rewards baked into their system make adding spells extremely difficult and that the last few seasons have been hard on wizard players.

In order to actually play out the role of "fantasy academic" that is the DnD wizard, I think there simply needs to be either more spells granted per level and/or a way (like downtime) for a wizard to perform spell research. As a DM you can of course come up with a way for downtime to work for spell research, but it's not codified. I also really like the idea mentioned above of letting wizards swap out some prepared spells on a short rest.

 

[Lanefan]

Something's not making sense here.

Upthread you said this:

I don't know if you followed the other threads, but in one post I showed how my 12th level Wizard with 84 learned spells from levels 1-6 has access to less spells than every other full caster with this new Spell Versatility feature. For a class that is often touted around as being known for its versatility, this is not good.

But here you say this:

It is in total, but includes their spellcasting ability modifier. So, a Wizard 7 with INT 16 would know 17 spells total, not 14.

And thus a 12th would know 24+mod, so maybe 27-29-ish. Last I checked, there's a rather big difference between that and 84. Either I'm missing something or Wizard flexibility goes out the window with this change - they become few-trick ponies, much like 3e Sorcerers.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Something's not making sense here.

Upthread you said this:


But here you say this:


And thus a 12th would know 24+mod, so maybe 27-29-ish. Last I checked, there's a rather big difference between that and 84. Either I'm missing something or Wizard flexibility goes out the window with this change - they become few-trick ponies, much like 3e Sorcerers.

You are confusing the two threads (sorry for being unclear!). In the other thread my level 12 Wizard had learned (and can thus prepare from) 84 spells, which are in her spellbook.

In this thread, the idea is to remove "prepared spells" and replace them with known spells. Following this idea, the same wizard would know 28 spells, from which via Spell Versatility she could swap out 1 per long rest.

Hopefully that is clearer.