males playing females and the other way around, opinions?

[InVinoVeritas]

Still no examples.

See Jas above.

 

[Dausuul]

See Jas above.

Link? This thread is seventeen pages long, I don't feel like digging back through all of it. Or you could, y'know, quote the relevant material.

 

[JustKim]

In a game set in the real world, or a world heavily grounded in real-world history, I would agree with you that exploring someone else's perspective is both a challenge and an interesting possibility. But in D&D? I just don't think it's there, unless your DM has gone to some lengths to put it there--in which case the cues for roleplaying originate with the DM, not the player.

I think we readily identify recognizable cues from our own experiences and expectations at the gaming table, and that naturally takes precedent over analyzing what makes sense in the D&D world. The game is populated by our preconceptions until someone specifically says otherwise, right? It's necessary for a shared experience with the rest of the people at your table. I think the world is strengthened, not thrown into question, by building off those preconceptions.

 

[radmod]

Hmm, I 'm wondering. I don't recall in these seventeen or so pages anyone mentioning GMs/DMs.
I see a lot of discussion about players playing opposite sexes, about how bad they can be, and/or about how freaky it seems.
Yet, GMs do it all the time. I certainly do. Does anyone find that freaky? Or are GMs, being the superior beings we are, that much better at it?

 

[Jeff Wilder]

Or are GMs, being the superior beings we are, that much better at it?

I, personally, am fairly terrible at it.

But the huge -- and frankly, I would have thought obvious -- difference is that NPCs rarely have, are expected to have, or realistically can have the depth of characterization a player should be bringing to a PC.

Frankly, almost all -- and I mean almost all -- of a DM's NPCs, as presented to the players, are relatively sketchy, two-dimensional constructs. So it doesn't make all that much difference that when I'm portraying Lady Elaydren in my Eberron campaign that it's a little iffy, because all of my NPCs -- and IME all NPCs in general -- are a little iffy. That my female NPCs are a smidge more so? Enh, it's not a game breaker.

 

[Hussar]

How?

Specific examples please.

How to present gender? Seriously? THIS is your question? Wow, I'm just really rather stunned as to think how to answer this.

Let's see - something as simple as requesting a separate room at the inn from the rest of the male party. How's that for specific?

Naming conventions. "I'm not Lord Rowena, I'm Lady Rowena."

Clothing.

I'm sure there are many, many other very obvious ways you can delineate your gender at the table that doesn't devolve down to stating that you're a woman every ten minutes. Then again, I've seen role playing of that calliber from more than a few "experienced" gamers, so, maybe that's not so far out there.

/snip

But saying that male and female characters are somehow fundamentally different and must be played differently... yeah, I just don't buy that argument, and I don't really care which side it's being deployed on. I'm tired of seeing it. I want somebody who's making it to put their* money where their mouth is and provide some specifics.
/snip[/size]

Bold mine.

Not must. Should. There is a difference. You certainly don't have to delineate the character's gender, any more than you have to do any other role play at the table.

But a well played character will do this, simply through the process of good role playing.

 

[pawsplay]

I'm a little concerned that some folks don't seem to really understand what makes male and female characters different.

Ok, so tell us. What makes them different? I've been wondering, because after several years of studying psychology and dabbling in sociology, I'm not sure. Maybe you could help me out.

Is that not justifiable, or are we trying not to acknowledge that men and women are different?

Of course men and women are different. It is also likely that men, on average, differ from women, but that's much more difficult to explicate than the numerous and obvious differences that distinguish one individual from another.

 

[pawsplay]

Do you understand why I'm amused, though?

The way I see it, there are two possibilities: (1) The male player accentuates the female gender of his PC, in whatever subtle or not-so-subtle way, so that people know he's playing a female. (2) The male player plays no difference in the PC.

In the case of (1), IME it has never failed to creep me out or offend me. In the case of (2), I see no good reason for the PC to be cross-gender.

To watch two groups of people essentially present good reasons to not allow cross-gender PCs -- to see both groups actually argue between themselves about it, while ostensibly both arguing for it -- well, it makes me laugh.

Let's go a third way. (3) Let the character develop naturally and believably without deliberately focusing on gender.

 

[Dausuul]

How to present gender? Seriously? THIS is your question? Wow, I'm just really rather stunned as to think how to answer this.

Let's see - something as simple as requesting a separate room at the inn from the rest of the male party. How's that for specific?

Naming conventions. "I'm not Lord Rowena, I'm Lady Rowena."

Clothing.

Hmm. Okay. That's a much more basic level than I thought you were talking about, but certainly fair--albeit the kind of thing I more or less take for granted when running a female character. I can't imagine making a female PC and referring to her as "Lord X."

(Of course, separate rooms at the inn often goes by the wayside when party paranoia reaches a certain level... privacy is nice, but not being off on your own when the assassins show up is a lot nicer.)

 

[Hussar]

Ok, so tell us. What makes them different? I've been wondering, because after several years of studying psychology and dabbling in sociology, I'm not sure. Maybe you could help me out.



Of course men and women are different. It is also likely that men, on average, differ from women, but that's much more difficult to explicate than the numerous and obvious differences that distinguish one individual from another.

Let's go a third way. (3) Let the character develop naturally and believably without deliberately focusing on gender.

But that isn't even required. You don't have to make something a huge deal in order to bring it to the table. But, you do have to make enough of it to get it noticed.

Let me turn it around. Why play a different gendered character and then never reference it at the table? Actually, let me broaden the question. Why add any characteristic to a character and then never bring it to the table? What's the point?

If your character is a 3 foot five midget with a lisp, but you never, ever reference this at the table, what was the point?