Malhavoc's Mindscapes

[BryonD]

Okay let's say I have an Egoist with Str 18 and all other attributes at 12.

If the mindscape system did tie modes with stats, why would I *ever* any other mode than the one tied to str.

The system as presented in Mindscapes has Psions switching between all the modes depending on the environment of the mindscape, or the action they want to take if they win.

To me it isn't vanilla, it's very tactical.

Because the benefit effect that you want will vary from situation to situation.

I may be in a spot where a bonus to damage or attack roll is just not going to benefit me next round because I plan to use some ability or something. Whatever. I now have the tactical choice, do I go with another mode and reduce my chance of winning, but maybe get the perk I want? Or do I go with Brain Hammer +4, giving up any valuable perk for myself in a effort to simply make sure that my opponent does not get his perk. If I go by the straight rules, I will just switch to Mind Insurgency or whatever, and not need to even think about tactics. One is as good as the other, so always go for the best benefit. Zero tactics. Vanilla.

6 psion types, zero combat variety.

 

[Gez]

Re: REVIEW: Part 1

[green] [bold] The Psionic System steps into its Own [/bold] [/red]

If you open green and close red, that's not going to work.

Spiritual: This PrC presents one of the coolest new innovations of this book - The Godminds. Godminds are exceptionally powerful entities like deities - but they do not channel divine energy. Most Godminds are absent from the planes, but some still empower their Spirituals with Psionic Nodes - similar to Divine Domains. Two examples of Psionic Nodes are given - Knowledge and Protection. This is a theme I'd like to see explored more in the future.
Clerics who worship Godminds do not gain any powers.

That sounds surprisingly like a feature of my own homebrew: the disembodied spirits of sundered gods, incarnated in the very land now, and that can be reached by attuning one's mind to their own strange, often insane, and usually comatose psyche, in order to steal their power -- roughly how psionics works IMC.

 

[BryonD]

(Psi)SeveredHead,

Is this the correct answer to my other question?

Q: What happens if a psion is within 60 feet of two other psions, who are not within 60 feet of each other?

A: Handle combat as normal with all three included, and the two that are not within range ignore each other, with the would-be winner gaining no benefit.

(Actually, that seems pretty obvious now, and I feel a little silly for having asked before. But I may as well follow through....)

 

[Particle_Man]

possibilities

1) What if the bonus to empathic multiplier was to effective manifester level for the purpose of overcoming the power resistance of the foe? That seems more in line with, for instance, Mind Insurgency.

2) Oh and put me squarely in the camp of those that want abilities score modifiers kept out of the lists. I like the idea of all 12 modes being equally possible from your opponent, rather than, "oh, he's a shaper, so he will most likely do X or Y".

3) By the way, has anyone got an answer for the "1 mindscape or two" question when A is 59' north of B, who in turn is 59' north of C? I keep going back and forth on this one. Maybe one mindscape but A and C are invisible to each other and so don't affect each other? But then is the terrain set or does it potentially change when a new mindscape battle intersects an old one (2 pairs of people fighting and getting closer to each other).
Certainly, one mindscape, one terrain makes for less hassle. Maybe that should be the criteria.

4) I just thought of a nasty thing to do as DM with overwhelm buffer. Since the non-psionic has only a subcounscious half-avatar, and only does a straight d20 roll without choosing a mode, the DM could just have a non-psionic player roll a d20 every round, and never tell him why.

 

[Benben]

Because the benefit effect that you want will vary from situation to situation.

I may be in a spot where a bonus to damage or attack roll is just not going to benefit me next round because I plan to use some ability or something. Whatever. I now have the tactical choice, do I go with another mode and reduce my chance of winning, but maybe get the perk I want? Or do I go with Brain Hammer +4, giving up any valuable perk for myself in a effort to simply make sure that my opponent does not get his perk. If I go by the straight rules, I will just switch to Mind Insurgency or whatever, and not need to even think about tactics. One is as good as the other, so always go for the best benefit. Zero tactics. Vanilla.

6 psion types, zero combat variety.

It's not reducing your chance of winning, it is eliminating it if you tie these modes to an attribute. This will also make egoists and the best psionic combatants in the game with their easier access to Animal Afinity and Metamorphosis.

Should shapeshifting into a dire bear have any effect on a psions abilities in the mindscape?

 

[Particle_Man]

I like it!

I like that idea of a "shared mindscape" and might
extend it to add that A and C (both within 60' of B, but more than 60' away from each other) would not only ignore each other, but wouldn't even detect each other (I'm talking about avatars here). Let's call that "mind blind".

The only detail is terrain. I would say that if someone joins a mindscape in progress, the terrain does not change. If there is a big free-for-all (say, 5 people), and 2 get more than 60' from the other 3, then we would have 2 mindscapes with the same terrain. And if one group of 3 in a mindscape meets up with another group of 2 in their own mindscape, the mindscapes would merge. If the terrains were different, then the terrain would become identical to the original terrain of the participant with the highest initiative. I like this idea because, when combined with the "mind blind" idea above, it could provide a clue to E that his opponent D is engaged with other psions, even if E cannot detect them in the mindscape.

Oh, and I would change "brutalize wounds" to a ray that gives a save. As it stands it seems too, well, brutal. I mean it gives ALL opponents free maximize powers for a while, as well as maximizing the damage of ALL weapons against the poor sap. Or am I overreacting?

And what do you guys think of the new Ego Whip? Too powerful with the "no save"? Or ok for its level?

 

[BryonD]

It's not reducing your chance of winning its eliminating it if you tie these modes to an attribute. This will also make egoists and the best psionic combatants in the game with their easier access to Animal Afinity and Metamorphosis.

Sorry, that is simply a vast overstatement.

There are a wide variety fo ways to obtain high ability scores. Animal Affinity, which any psion with a 12 STR can get, or polymorph are just a couple. And if one or two abilities are really low, such that they become truly undersirable, GOOD, THAT makes interesting tactics.

Why is a CON 10 telepath just as good at body tank as a CON 20 savant?

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Q: What happens if a psion is within 60 feet of two other psions, who are not within 60 feet of each other?

A: Handle combat as normal with all three included, and the two that are not within range ignore each other, with the would-be winner gaining no benefit.

I included all three creatures, but the rules for multiple combatants underwent some changes ... positive ones, IMO.

3) By the way, has anyone got an answer for the "1 mindscape or two" question when A is 59' north of B, who in turn is 59' north of C? I keep going back and forth on this one. Maybe one mindscape but A and C are invisible to each other and so don't affect each other? But then is the terrain set or does it potentially change when a new mindscape battle intersects an old one (2 pairs of people fighting and getting closer to each other).
Certainly, one mindscape, one terrain makes for less hassle. Maybe that should be the criteria.

I would include them all in the same Mindscape. You could argue that A can't actually apply bonuses against C, however.

Why is a CON 10 telepath just as good at body tank as a CON 20 savant?

The savant probably wouldn't use body tank very often, at least not past level 8 or 9, since Inertial Barrier is better in the majority of circumstances.

The telepath might use it if he can't manifest Inertial Barrier or some other DR-granting power, or he might use Mind Insurgency instead.

Speaking of which, Seers, Savants and Telepaths have a number of save-or-"die" powers, especially the Telepath.

Applying actual ability score modifiers to a Mindscape mode check could give one of those subclasses an unfair advantage.

 

[BryonD]

Actually, I will expand on my reply.

Let's say I am an egoist and with all my perks going I have a STR of 26. So I have a +8 bonus for STR. Now, my CHR is 8. So if I go from Brain Hammer to Empathic Multiplier, I am taking a relative penalty of -9.

Does that meet your definition of "eliminating" my chances for success.

Well, if I think my opponent is capable of, and likely to be using a +8 ability modifier, then it will certainly limit my chances. So maybe I need to think long and hard about the value. (A tactical consideration not present currently) But that is an extreme case. Maybe my opponent is lower level than me, or doesn't have quite as high a bonus as me. If his bonus is +5. I am going from a +3 edge to get a perk that won't help me, to a -6 penalty to get a better perk, though I may give away a perk to my opponent. Are the odds in my favor? No. Why must they be?

But a swing of 9 points is a long way from destroying my chances. And that is a major extreme example. The vast majority of real cases will not mandate that I go from a 26 stat to an 8 stat. If I simply go from 22 to 14, the swing is only -4. Certainly that can often be a valid gamble.

 

[BryonD]

The savant probably wouldn't use body tank very often, at least not past level 8 or 9, since Inertial Barrier is better in the majority of circumstances.

The telepath might use it if he can't manifest Inertial Barrier or some other DR-granting power, or he might use Mind Insurgency instead.

This answers why they would want to, but not why they should have that option.

Why does a savant have better access to inertial barrier than a telepath?

Considering the answer to that question, why does a savant NOT have better access to Body Tank?

Speaking of which, Seers, Savants and Telepaths have a number of save-or-"die" powers, especially the Telepath.

Applying actual ability score modifiers to a Mindscape mode check could give one of those subclasses an unfair advantage.

So far, my option gives an unfair advantage to Seer, Savants, Telepaths and Egoists.

I'm sure we can work in Nomads and Shapers.....

Bonus to DC is an Intelligent Mode effect, so the Seer, Savants, and Telepaths would actually have their perk slightly reduced by my option. And there is your unfair adavantage for Shapers.

Just nomads to go..